The UK is Out - New PM - and whither now for Article 50
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Comments
Mrs Grey I will start with you. In my opinion there are two different things happening for workers and I may not have been clear in my earlier posts. If I split into two different groups I think we may be on more common ground.
Working conditions - I would much rather be working today than 50 plus years ago as I do feel we have better working conditions and rights.
Working culture - On the other hand I also accept that the work life balance has got worse. Most families need two incomes now to survive and there is ever increasing pressure to work late or stay connected through technology which detracts from our day to day lives.
A quick link to gov figures showing a big decline in worker deaths compared to 50 years ago - http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/pdf/fatalinjuries.pdf
I was commenting more on the conditions not culture. Maybe I was being too simplistic, but I would hope all agree there has been improvement there.
Yeold I do actually believe that services like transport should be government run so that there can be national and local infrastructure put in place that links in and works well. The only problem is if the Government can do this better that the private sector. I think that there is a lot of waste in public services, but at the same time key infrastructure and services should be outside of markets/profitability making and in the interests of the nation. However would we all be prepared to pay the tax needed for these to be run how we would want?
Madcap I wouldn't trust me either
Finally, Swiss what minority??? I am pretty sure it was the majority that voted to leave. Far too often those 17.5m people are dismissed and uneducated idiots that got it wrong just because those that wanted to remain don't like the outcome. If I was an MP it would be remiss of me not to consider how my constituents voted when it comes to me casting my own vote.
Two options:
- click the quote and then edit out the irrelevant bits
- copy the bit you want to quote, paste it into your post, highlight it and click the icon that looks like a speech box. You'd need to add the user's name.
It's only really an issue when someone has written a long post and that all gets quoted.On the MP question, I commented at the time, that if referendum votes were mapped into constituencies, I'm not sure the result would have been the same.
I expect someone soon will revisit the referendum results and attempt to make a 'constituency map' - I would be interested to see which side had a majority in that scenario.
;wahoo
But I refer primarily to the golden thread of political principle that runs through Britain's history, which is the sovereignty of Parliamentary decisions, won in public opposition to Royal and aristocratic privilege, even if this has to be expressed sometimes by venal and dislikable people.
But it's the same as that other great British tradition, that of trial by a jury of ordinary people "good and true". Its the same idea with exactly the same drawbacks but the principle remains strong when people are called upon to respect and implement it.
That's why I will have no difficulty at all with the Brexit decision once Parlament has had its rightful say and if it confirms the referendum opinion. If Parliament votes accordingly I for one will immediately shut up about Brexit and pull hard for its success.
Either way we are going to face tough negotiations with the EU so even if we are negotiating to stay or leave we will be better served by doing so as a united country.
If the vote is to stay then I would accept that and back it as it is the division which could hurt us more in the long term.
However, thank god for the supremacy of the law and not the likes of Arron Banks.
The happiest person may just be Theresa May as despite what she may say publicly she cannot really lose as if they vote and she wins then she can say without doubt she now has the clear mandate and support of the people and parliament, if she loses and it gets setback she can act as appalled and is not the one driving the country over the cliff anymore.
This referendum was political in its inception and remains so now, the politics just became up for grabs again however. Some would say that the problem should never have been created and we just needed create a political scenario to correct Camerons massive miscalculation, maybe this is the first step to doing so, maybe not, but the good thing either way is we begin to understand again that democracy did not end on the 23rd of June and the parliamentary sovereignty which was claimed to be fought for survives.
I wish I had made that one up. Sunds like a job for Boris before he goes to the stocks...
A: Turn back and perish.
B: Wait until a government was invented to pass a law that made the building of bridges legal.
C: Co-operate as rational thinking human beings and look to build a bridge out of wood from said forest.
Man, from the dawn of time, has co-operated in mutual beneficial ways to overcome problems. Its what we do. Or are you telling me that the government invented electricity. All great inventions and innovations are made in the minds of men. Without laws and governments are you telling me that people will stop thinking? Or are you telling me that without laws and governments we would all prefer to stumble around in the dark. If anything laws, red tape and governments stifle creativity, condemn and vilify "madmen" and visionaries as charlatans.
There was a democratic vote, ok the result may not have been one that you, or 48% of the people that voted wanted, but it was still a vote put to the people. So why do you think that democracy ended on the 23rd?
Yet the current government wanted to act in a way that did not accord with the rules of our parliamentary democracy.
It is upholding democracy, by ensuring that the PM doesn't abuse his/her power.
The govt is elected on many promises, but if they make promises they can't keep without breaking the law, we shouldn't give them the not to just go ahead and do it anyway.
We don`t always get it right. The path of human endeavour and consciousness is forever advancing and developing. I hope and think that one day the World will be truly peaceful, truly free, and truly equal. There is only one "doctrine" I have come across so far where these are its only declared objectives. No fudges, no qualifications. Peace, freedom and equality for all men. Simple.
The ruling today points this out categorically, which is also why TM will be making a pointless appeal. Parliament has not stated it intends to go against the advice of the referendum but that it has so little information at present with regard what Brexit would like, as the prime minister has been more interested in brexit means brexit and playing to the home crowd than seeking to bring everyone together.
During the forthcoming debate parliament will have to endorse the advice of the referendum or make a very good and coherent case as to why it is not with the 1.9% majority and is taking a different course. But this was always the nature of the vote, the vote could have been made binding but was not done so, it was advisory and the advice was for our sovereign parliament, they must now consider it and vote upon it, something up to now has been not allowed.
This brings me to the question Tom has written about my suggestion that democracy should not have ended on 23rd of June. The reason I suggested that some feel it should is that they wish that one very close vote to trump everything else and to be the end of it. I Democracy is never ending however and that vote is the first step, it then gets debated at the next level, and then the next which is the lords and then it gets passed. A good thing to remember is that the Lords (love em or hate em) was designed to be a safeguard against an irrational parliament, and in the case of referendum parliament should be the same safe guard, but many wish that referendum trump everything and need not be scrutinised after such a vote. When in fact this vote probably more than any other has room and need for scrutiny. If we agree with democracy we must surely agree with all aspects and it's ongoing nature. If brexit gets through parliament, and the lords then not even the staunchest remainer can complain, but where it stands at present the debate has not properly been had away from headlines and buses in truth.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37861456
It is a red herring in my book the line about not making her negotiating strategy public as we all know what it is and so do the EU. We want as much access as possible but need concessions on immigration, for which we will pay in another way. We have so little leverage that the idea that we say we wont buy cheese and BMW'S unless we get everything we want is ludicrous.