VILLA (H) SUN MARCH 12TH 2pm

IronHerb

BubblesNeverDies said:

Is it just me or has Soućek really been anonymous?

It was you.

buffybegood

As the game panned out, with Villa offering very little, then Soucek's defensive strengths weren't called on too much, so it was probably a game where another player could have been utilised instead (Fornals maybe, I wasn't overly impressed with Lanzini against AEK on Thursday). Unfortunately things aren't working for Soucek on the goal scoring front, as that and his defensive qualities are why he's in the team,not his distribution.

chicagohammer

Have obviously not seen much of Cornet and although he fluffed his lines when through on goal yesterday, the step over may have been a bit fu-fu but it showed me he has confidence and if he has some pace, as alluded to in the article, he is certainly worth a try, but………..

I have a plan so listen very carefully, as I will say this only once.

Not up top on his own

chicagohammer

Leaving Cornet aside, Scamacca is clearly a good player, he gets his shot away quickly, knows where the goal is, has decent control and is physical enough to put himself about and cause problems for defenders.

The article alludes to fitness levels but from what I have seen, he simply does not have pace soooooooo IMO, even when fit, he does not suit the lone wolf role and would therefore benefit from someone alongside him up top.

Just saying 🤷‍♂️

welovethehammers

Is Ings quicker/stronger than Scamacca?

OutcastLondoner

Cornet I always thought was the signing I most wanted to see. Thought he added the directness and pace we've lacked, especially since Antonio became a striker. He might not have scored but I don't think there's been a game he's come on where he's not involved in creating chances.

The Scamacca thing worries me for the same reason Chicago. Hopefully DM's just referring to what he wanted in that game because it was always pretty clear Scamacca isn't going to be capable of getting in behind.

buffybegood

A concern for me is that I think Moyes bought him on the basis that we'd be a much more possession based side this season than previously, so his technical ability would be much more to the fore. Unfortunately that is really not how this season has panned out, so Scamacca's lack of pace is being highlighted.

OutcastLondoner

Maybe. But I personally don't see how we ever actually tried to set up to play possession football. I've heard it talked about but don't see the evidence. Not saying you're wrong but I struggle to believe Moyes thought we would be a possession side after the way he set us up. Most possession sides don't sit as deep as we did for so much of the season, they try to win the ball back early. I'm not even saying we should have. I think the counter-attacking was good.

I still think Moyes' biggest mistake was when he played that Rice, Soucek, Downes midfield right when Scamacca was looking good. Completely disrupted his flow and he went from being able to connect with the players around him to isolated and frustrated.

buffybegood

I'm not saying we ever managed to play more possession based, but some of the players we've brought in, such as Aquerd, Paqueta and even Kehrer arrived here with reputations of being very good on the ball. Zouma isn't slow, and bringing in Aguerd to play alongside him would maybe suggest the intention was to play a higher line as we dominated 😂🤣😂 possession. Scamacca's signing makes a lot more sense in those circumstances.

It's obviously not happened, but a lot of our summer recruitment seems to have been on the assumption that we're better than we actually are, and early season injuries haven't helped either.

OutcastLondoner

Yeah, I wasn't really reacting to you. It just triggers me a bit when I see that "possession" line 🤣.

I saw it banded about early in the season and the transfers made sense. We were definitely struggling to counter-attack anyway last season. But if he actually tried to implement it then it was a colossal failure. I wonder how our actual possession stats compare to previous seasons.

IronHerb

From Transfermarket -

West Ham total possession -

2019/20 - 42.9%
2020/1 - 42.7%
2021/2 - 47.7%
2022/3 - 43.6%

BubblesNeverDies

IronHerb said:

From Transfermarket -

West Ham total possession -

2019/20 - 42.9%
2020/1 - 42.7%
2021/2 - 47.7%
2022/3 - 43.6%

Those damned stats.

#statsdon'tlie

Ravel49

We would have got away with it if it hadn’t of been for those pesky stats

Hamstew

Just seen this re soucek. Not sure on anyone elses stats so don't shoot the messenger. This is abysmal from a CM though.

DJ Hammer

Looking at those figures you’ve gotta ask yourself what has he got on Moyes?

Bazshuayi

He's found out what Moyes has on the board?

Bazshuayi

So... Even though I havent got the inclination to count just over 4 minutes of seconds, I know itll feel like a hell of a long time if I picture being on a football pitch knowing thats the average time it'll take before I touch the ball again (if I was Tomas Soucek)

Hamstew

I don't know where this is from but it would be interesting to see Rice and Paqueta's stats.

alderz

It looks a lot like a screenshot from SofaScore.

OldCastleSwift

Those stats are from Sofascore:

https://www.sofascore.com/aston-villa-west-ham/MP

For comparison:





There are more stats that aren't shown in the original screenshot, but again, Soucek doesn't exactly stand out in those either.

Lukerz

He does a lot of good work defensively & running wise, but he doesn’t offer enough to justify starting as one of a three man midfield, especially at home. He doesn’t even win many influential defensive or attacking headers anymore.

jay_in_cpt

Personally think if we are talking about Soucek's form dropping you could discuss most of the squad from last season or two, that's apart from Paqueta who in all fairness has offered little, Kehrer who looks championsip level or just nervous, Aguerd who has had a few decent games among a few dodgy ones...
Gotta say Rice has also slipped form wise, but yeh.Soucek has suffered in a struggling team, but not the only one, so perhaps look at some others..Haven't even mentioned Cresswell/Johnson/ Bowen / Fornals, they have all gone downhill formwise IMO

Hamstew

But the others get dropped regularly. Some never start. Bowen has improved in form massively imo.
I think the discussion is that he's a regular in the team week in week out.

buffybegood

Lukerz said:

He does a lot of good work defensively & running wise, but he doesn’t offer enough to justify starting as one of a three man midfield, especially at home. He doesn’t even win many influential defensive or attacking headers anymore.

I agree that against Villa at home there's a strong argument that his defensive qualities wouldn't justify his inclusion, and unfortunately he seems to have lost most of his attacking and goal scoring influence all over not just with his head, but it still feels as though he wins some important headers defensively.

If we play a 4-1-4-1 again going forward (it did feel as though that's what we played on Sunday) then maybe it would likely be Fornals in alongside Paqueta, which doesn't feel too bad a formation. An even more attacking option might be playing Benrahma there when Cornet is available to play wide left but I feel Moyes will think that we'd be too lightweight through the middle.

jay_in_cpt

Hamstew said:

But the others get dropped regularly. Some never start. Bowen has improved in form massively imo.
I think the discussion is that he's a regular in the team week in week out.

Bowen has recently improved, his early seaon form was very poor IMO, but was never dropped.
I don't disagree that Soucek has not been great, but most of the rest have been little better IMO, and apart from Benrahma, Fornals & Cresswell, most have retained their place in the team.

Hamstew

Bowen wasn't dropped as I don't think there is much competition in his position. Now he's doing better
I don't actually think anyone has retained their position in the team except Rice, Paqueta and Fabianski. Everyone else is rotated around and in and out of the team.
CB position picks itself I guess depending on injuries.