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Comments
To try and answer your question,I’m not calling anyone a liar am I? I agreed that we played rubbish and deserved to get beat.
The first bit I really don’t get, if we got beat and I hadn’t seen the game, would I not accept the score? I’m not Donald Trump, of course I would.
Normally, losing the game in the 93rd minute is absolutely gutting but strangely, that was not my reaction today, I would have obviously taken the point gladly but nonetheless felt, like in a couple of recent games, that the result is papering over the cracks that appear self evident so when Antonio did his thing and they went straight up the other end and scored, I almost had no reaction at all.
That told me all i needed to know - confirmation that IMO, we deserved nothing from this game.
We have a strong squad but DM is not currently getting the best out of them, Slacker asks if it is the managers fault that they look like they have never played together, and I am afraid to say that I think it is.
It is not the managers fault when individual mistakes are made on the pitch, a wayward pass or miss timed tackle, but when the team collectively appear clueless and lacking in desire, clearly there needs to be an improvement in communication as to what is desired tactically.
For me, I do not think that Moyes will be replaced before the World Cup, but he will not have long afterwards, if the performances do not show improvement, he surely will be shown the door.
I just watched Liverpool VS spurs and despite both sides giving the ball away cheaply, the pace, passion and vision on display was worlds away from what we have displayed in recent weeks.
NF aside, I have not seen many teams that look more vulnerable, uncomfortable in possession, pedestrian and bereft of ideas than we do right now.
I think most of us were expecting a transition season with the number of new players we had to bring in in the summer (again, something some of use lay at Moyes' door), but as has been said before, it's not just about results; the performances started to drop off last season, and have not picked up. It's that trend that's more worrying to me because it suggests to me that it's more than a blip.
A genuine question Lukerz, and I'm not trolling here, at what point would you pull the trigger? With an in-form Leicester and a flying Arsenal up next we could quite easily be in the relegation zone by the new year; is that the right time? Or would you give Moyes the whole season even if it meant relegation?
I know sacking a manager brings an inherent risk, but keeping Moyes in this current form also represents a risk, IMO.
[a] For the entirety of this calendar year, I have failed to determine what our game plan is. It used to be very clear that we were a counter attacking side - low block, quick break - and were a set piece threat. In 2022, we don't seem to know what we're doing. We have seemingly bought players that are less suited to that style of play, but we don't seem capable of playing to their strengths.
[b] I fund us utterly boring to watch. It's not exciting or interesting. I don't watch us expecting us to win every week, but I do expect to see some good football. I'm sick of watching the same game every week. Sure, sometimes we win and that fleetingly makes me feel good, but I just want to watch us play and enjoy it.
and [c] The manager seems completely unwilling to try something new. We alternate between a laboured 4-2-3-1, and a laboured 3-4-2-1. And when it doesn't work, we do the same again. According to Transfermarkt, Brighton played 10 different formations last season. They played. They even played 4-4-2 a few times. I look at that tactical flexibility and I just don't understand why we can't try something different.
Re [a] - Moyes spent so long looking for a suitable alternative to Antonio, and finally settled on a player that is nothing like Antonio. Fine, if you then adapt to the new striker's abilities, but we haven't; as with Haller, we seem to be expecting Scamacca to adapt his game to play like Antonio, and when he doesn't he gets hooked at half time.
Re [b] - It's just not fun, is it. Watching West Ham has become a chore. I've watched a lot of Championship football again this season and have seen a lot of teams that play a much more exciting brand of football than us, with significantly less talented players.
Re [c] - I believe we now have the squad to be more flexible, but we're still seeing the same formations and the same line-ups. That breeds predictability and I think that's one of our biggest problems; teams worked out how to stop our counter, managers know exactly what Bowen's going to do when he gets the ball now, manager's know to press Soucek because he's not very good with the ball at his feet which leads to turnovers. When something's not working, it's common sense to try to change it. We're not doing that; we're just trying the same thing each game with the apparent hope that it will eventually work.
I have thought that for sometime now. I disagree with all those who can't see that Haller, Anderson & Vlasic are good players who have proved can play at a decent standard. All 3 have been let go under the instructions of David Moyes & have rediscovered their form at their new clubs. Scamacca appears to be on the same path as Haller which is troubling.
Moyes wanted to transition us to a possession based team but this simply has not happened. That possession based team starts at the front, Guardiola and Klopp both have said this before, the high press starts with Firmino working the back 4 and Mane and Salah pushed right up when it was bread and butter for Liverpool week in week out. We don't do this what so ever.
We are positioned as a counter attacking team attempting possession based football. We have a central midfield pair where we have transitioned Rice into a Box to Box and sacked off Soucek into a bit part player who no longer does anything that made him so good in his first season with us marauding into the box for a header at the back post.
We have 3/4 full backs who cant cross a ball and 2 wide midfielders who consistently cut inside with no invention to run the opposition full backs to open up the field of play.
It feels very much like the team is playing 2 styles of football at the same time. Setting up a possession based team that plays on the backfoot that attempts counters with no pace on front end because the starting positions of the 3 attackers up front are 15 yards behind where you need them to be.
I think a lot of our problem now is mentality and that's what Moyes needs to sort. I know that last season we didn't have space to counter attack against teams but against Palace yesterday there was that opportunity. They were often very high and putting pressure on us. But when we do win the ball back there's very little fluidity and willingness to burst forward. We allow teams to get back behind the ball. Bowen very rarely tries to go past a player on the outside anymore. We could've counter attacked yesterday if we were faster with the ball.
I think we will be better in 2023,one Noble is back.
Maybe you're right about Noble and I wish he was coming back earlier. I'm not sure Rice is really a leader yet. He shows moments but I really dislike his body language sometimes, there's a lot of waving his arms and shrugging his shoulders in frustration. Yes, he's the best player and has the right to some of that, but he needs to balance it with more leadership and encouragement on the pitch.
We were just awful all over the pitch, and yes that is down to the manager and coaches to sort out.A few home truths and a couple of rockets in sensitive areas are needed at Rush Green today.
Hopefully today they will be watching yesterday’s game back and will be as miserable as we all were (are) at what we saw.
Perhaps one of them could help.🤷🏻♂️
The trouble is that style of play can be very unattractive for the fans.
By adopting the ultra defensive set up it's affecting the fluidity needed to transition to attack, and it's also been worked out by most of the teams in the PL who know that we tend to wilt under the high press.
It was really good to see the B team on Thursday show what can be achieved with a different mindset, and I can't understand why Moyes doesn't adopt it with the first team.
It's not as if we're doing well with the defensive approach is it, so what is there to lose apart from goal difference taking a hit if it goes wrong.
Whilst I'm not by any means saying Moyes doesn't need to look long and hard about how he's setting us up, it's not quite as simple in the PL as it was on Thursday.