West Ham vs Bournemouth on Monday

ASLEFshrugged

chicagohammer said:

The other VAR error was the red card miss, VAR was supposed to catch stuff that the Ref misses, and it failed to do so here on both occasions.

VAR is only used in four situations:-
Goals
Penalties
Red Cards
Mistaken identity

Had the ref awarded a red card for Lerma's foul VAR would have checked it. The ref awarded a yellow so no VAR

IronHerb

That's the one. 😂

BubblesNeverDies

Just getting ready for your bath, Slacker?

buffybegood

ASLEFshrugged said:

VAR is only used in four situations:-
Goals
Penalties
Red Cards
Mistaken identity

Had the ref awarded a red card for Lerma's foul VAR would have checked it. The ref awarded a yellow so no VAR

Not quite right, VAR would definitely have checked to make sure that a yellow was sufficient; yellows can be upgraded to red if the VAR thinks it's bad enough for the ref to have another look.

So you're right in that VAR is used for red cards not yellows; however its remit includes yellows that should be reds (in the same way that it includes potential reds that are missed by the ref entirely).

buffybegood

Lukerz said:

Personally, I think VAR should only be used for offsides. We should have had a penalty at Southampton for a foul on Soucek. It went in our favour tonight. It’s swings & roundabouts. It’s so inconsistent I don’t see how it can be any worse removing it from subjective calls.

So you're OK with a completely blatent handball straight into the net like the Wilson one you highlighted?

Imo, in trying to get consistency now that we have the opportunity to review decisions in-match, the guidelines for things like handball are being laid down so that it's black and white; if the ball strikes your arm but it's within your silhouette (and not deliberate), then it's not handball. If your arm is outside of your silhouette, it's handball, even if your arm is in a natural position for jumping or sliding to block or whatever.

In part I think it's because players like Graeme Le Saux would deliberately run towards a player with his arms outstretched when trying to make a block; even if he didn't deliberately move his arm once the ball had been struck, he deliberately made himself much bigger with his arms outstretched in his attempt to make the block.

So, imo, in an attempt to get consistency in handball decisions, and given how bad our referees are at present, some commonsense has been lost in decision making in favour of black and white guidelines.

Lukerz

No I’d rather not but I’d back officials (generally) to see those incidents. It’s not any different to what we have with VAR, where blatant handballs are resulting in goals, being missed & not being overturned with VAR. I don’t see there’s much difference in switching it off for all incidents apart from red cards (which are missed) & offsides.

MunichHammer

I think we need to hear the VAR talking, explaining his thought process. That would really help make everything better.

jay_in_cpt

Mike Dean my main man on VAR last night
🤣⚒️👍🏻

thornburyiron

Considering in slow mo Kehrer had his eyes closed when the ball hit his hand, which was in front of his stomach, I don’t see how he could have deliberately handled it. This is what VAR saw.

alderz

Lukerz said:

No I’d rather not but I’d back officials (generally) to see those incidents.

I think you’re forgetting how poor the refs were before too. I’m not saying they’re good now, but I see a lot of people saying this sort of thing and I think they are looking back with rose tinted glasses, tbh.

Fortuneseeker

VAR has changed the way football is played now IMHO. I didn't celebrate the first goal last night & sat waiting for a reason to be found to rule it out. In the "good old days" you used to look to the linesman, as they were called, to see them signal for a penalty last night all the referees assistant did was flag for a corner. The officials don't really make any key decisions now and if they do they know there is someone looking at a screen who will advise them if they have made an error. We all want the right decision to be made so I suppose I better get used to it.

Slacker

Nah, burn it.

steve

why did Kehrer have his eyes closed ,I know i do quite often when watching West Ham ,But really one of our own players

thornburyiron

Most players seem to close their eyes when they go to head the ball. It must be instinctive.

IronHerb

Explains why we're not scoring many though.

Lukerz

Thought this was interesting, from an interview on Sky with Pablo Fornals.

Lukerz

To be fair, we did play City, Brighton, Spurs, Chelsea & Everton in those first 7 games, which is likely to sway the stars a little in terms of possession & passes.

alderz

Lukerz said:

Thought this was interesting, from an interview on Sky with Pablo Fornals.

When you look at the maps, you can see that the main difference is the AM getting closer to the midfield so we keep the ball better.

Brother_Sledge

I think VAR should be kept even though I hate not being able to celebrate 100% straightaway. I think the VAR should make the decision and do away with the pitchside monitor. The VAR should not be influenced by the ref's original decision. VAR decision should be based mostly on real time replay with limited use of Slo-mo. Offsides to be based on the lines as present. I think that puts full responsibility with the individuals making the decisions.

buffybegood

Brother_Sledge said:

I think VAR should be kept even though I hate not being able to celebrate 100% straightaway. I think the VAR should make the decision and do away with the pitchside monitor. The VAR should not be influenced by the ref's original decision. VAR decision should be based mostly on real time replay with limited use of Slo-mo. Offsides to be based on the lines as present. I think that puts full responsibility with the individuals making the decisions.

This is more or less how it was done originally, but the problem is the VAR is basically having to say "You've made a mistake", which they were always very reluctant to do. As it is, they allow the ref to change his own mind, so much more likely to get to the correct decision, imo.

Slacker

It just takes away that rush of happiness when you’re team scores. It’s bad enough watching on the telly but in the ground it’s just awful.
As someone said earlier, when your team scores you look at the ref/lino and if there’s no signal from either then it’s a goal, that takes a millisecond for your brain to compute, not 2,3 or 4 minutes.

Giant_Hammer

Slacker for PM.
I don’t get to games much any more, cant afford Sky and normally have to rely on radio 5 or
talk(let’s have another advert)sport. It’s bad enough having to listen to their mundane conversations to the exclusion of any football commentary (sometimes I wonder if there is a match on at all). I think it’s soul destroying when we score and then 90 seconds later the commentator says var are looking at it cos somebody’s shoe lace came undone 20 minutes ago and then they wake up the idiot doing co-comms who rants off giving his 3 pen’th It just does my head in.

Lukerz

The ones I don’t get is where they spend 5 minutes looking at a collision or a handball, then decide to go back & see if there was an offside or foul in the build up. Maybe a good idea to check that one first, clears it up in 10 seconds.

Slacker

Giant_Hammer said:

Slacker for PM.
I don’t get to games much any more, cant afford Sky and normally have to rely on radio 5 or
talk(let’s have another advert)sport. It’s bad enough having to listen to their mundane conversations to the exclusion of any football commentary (sometimes I wonder if there is a match on at all). I think it’s soul destroying when we score and then 90 seconds later the commentator says var are looking at it cos somebody’s shoe lace came undone 20 minutes ago and then they wake up the idiot doing co-comms who rants off giving his 3 pen’th It just does my head in.

Messaged you mate.

Giant_Hammer

Slacker, thanks for that. I’ll look into it.

Slacker

BubblesNeverDies said:

Just getting ready for your bath, Slacker?

Actually it was a bit of modelling for Rees- Mogg’s line in “ Attire for the discerning angler”.
Half a day’s shoot £100 cash in hand and all the Earl Grey you could drink.