The Jesse Lingard Derby

IronHerb

I was thinking more of the options open to Moyes yesterday but we do need a designated penalty taker and if it is Rice then that should be an end of an discussion.

buffybegood

I was playing golf yesterday afternoon with a fellow Hammer and a Man Utd supporter; knowing what happened, I still haven't brought myself to watch the "highlights" yet 😞

IronHerb

You should. It was a decent game and we played well.

ASLEFshrugged

Lanzini's penalty record

22 Apr 2013 Godoy Cruz v River Plate - scored
17 Sep 2016 WBA v West Ham - scored
19 Nov 2016 Spurs v West Ham -scored
29 Nov 2017 Everton v West Ham - saved

Oddly all his penalties were away games

Also the three times he's taken a penalty for us we've lost

yoyo

27 1/2 hours later and I'm still cheesed off

thornburyiron

Apart from the penalty fiasco I’m still a bit annoyed by the Lingard goal. As good as it was there were enough players in our team who knew exactly what he likes to do and I’m sure Zouma would have known too.

Bazshuayi

Being a veteran West Ham supporter means, for my sanity, I've developed a denial mode for anything I find tricky to digest or think about (game or incident) concerning us. It works for watching England too (Euro penalties? What penalties!!)

Fortuneseeker

Having reviewed the penalty incidents I can't fathom how OGS can see three penalties for his side, oh I forgot he is blinkered and believes a la SAF that United should always get the decisions. One yes, but of the other two, one probably last season but not this & the last one should have resulted in the great "Ronaldo" getting a yellow for falling over! Rio, lest not forget he wants to be part of the consortium who buys us, has said he hopes this isn't the start of a trend of CR7 not getting penalties because of who he is, no he should be getting booked because of his actions. They conveniently forgot to be honest about the foul on Soucek but as most of their fans believe we don't really exist they can pretend it didn't happen. I firmly hope it is ABU for the title this season with the odd exception, but they aren't going to win it in North London anyway.

ASLEFshrugged

Zaha or Ronaldo.
Who goes down the easiest and looks more outraged when they don't get a penalty/free kick?

Kuchinghammer

It was fun watching Ronaldo's tantrums... until the last minute of the match. Since then I 've had a fun bypass.

Kuchinghammer

And it's Soucek as pen man for me: he's experienced, he's mentally cool, he has a fearsome shot, and it keeps him in the scoring mode. Rice will be gone next year, unfortunately.

OldCastleSwift

ASLEFshrugged said:

Zaha or Ronaldo.
Who goes down the easiest and looks more outraged when they don't get a penalty/free kick?

I don't like diving by anyone, but it annoys me more when Ronaldo does it, because he's a good enough player to not have to. One of the greatest player to ever play the game and he feels he has to do that to get an advantage.

Fortuneseeker

I know it’s unlikely to ever happen but they should use VAR to alert referees to an act of simulation so they can book the offender. Wonder how long it would be before CR7, Zaha and let’s not forget Salah got sent off for 2 yellows?

whupathman

I am still furious at the free kick given against us for what was a clear pen.

claretandbluesky

More than anything Sunday convinced me that we must prioritise this opportunity of the Europa league, I think we will finish between 6-12 in the league as we can't really compete with the top four, who I think are much stronger than last season. Give everything to the Europa matches, which may mean resting Antonio, Rice, Soucek and Zouma at times from league matches.

OldCastleSwift

Yup, I don't think it's too early to say Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool and Man Utd will almost certainly be the in the top 4 come the end of the season.

If 5th and 6th are good enough for EL then we're competing with Leicester, Spurs, Everton and probably Arsenal, plus a couple of wildcards if the past couple of seasons is anything to go by, which won't be easy with our schedule.

A EL win would give us Champions League football, and given the chances of getting that through the league are slim at best, there's an argument to say we should go all out for the EL.

claretandbluesky

To qualify for Europa this year would be a big achievement and we are already in the competition this year. We have a kindly group at first look and Declan Rice that we may not have next year. It must be our priority as even if we don't win it a good run will prove a real success after a few pretty poor seasons prior to last season.

IronHerb

So we commit to the EL, blow it, and in the meantime a decent position in the EPL is lost.

That works.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

The Europa is far from easy to win

Think we will likely field a weaker team in Europa as we look like we can get through the group stages, probably player stronger team in the league

But once the knockout stages come around we'd probably go stronger in the Europa over the league

IronHerb

Thing is that players can, and do, play two competitive games a week on a regular basis. The EL is manageable along with an effort in the EPL with just small adjustments.

OldCastleSwift

IronHerb said:

So we commit to the EL, blow it, and in the meantime a decent position in the EPL is lost.

That works.

Or we commit to the league, blow it, and in the meantime a decent run in the EL is lost.

There's a balance that Moyes would ideally strike, and I think that means sacrificing the league cup for a starter. We competed all season to achieve European football, so we should cherish it now we have it and give it everything.

claretandbluesky

So we prioritise the league with the best hope of qualifying for the Europa league that you are already in but not prioritising in the hope of qualifying for the Europa League next year. What kind of logic is that?

Makes no sense to me! If the prize of last season was the Europa qualification then we prioritise it. We will need prioritise because we don't have the quality of squad to attack full strength on both fronts, Antonio alone simply wont stand up to Thursday and following weekend games in my view.

We also in my view have a greater chance of Champions League qualification by winning the europa than unseating City, Chelsea, Liverpool or United from the top four.

yoyo

Squad rotation is the key, we don't have a bad squad now ( at least the best one we've had in years IMO)

IronHerb

So why don't we prioritise the League Cup and EL and forget the league? Thats two shots at next seasons EL for an additional five games.
Winning in Zagreb doesn't mean we're going to win the EL.

OldCastleSwift

No-one's saying it is. But what's the point of qualifying for Europe if you're not going to do everything you can to go as far as you can?

I get that we would ideally finish top 6 again in the league for another season in Europe, but as some have alluded to, that will probably be more difficult and unlikely this time round.

IronHerb

No one's saying we shouldn't give the EL a go are they? If we are to progress as a club/team then we need to grasp this opportunity to do so. Conceding the league effort shows no ambition imo. There is no guarantee we will do as well in the league this year for sure but should we give up on it with the squad we now have? Not for me.

puddleglumhammers

Make sure we get through to the knock out games and use that as a carrot to get a decent striker in the Jan transfer window. Maybe an experienced older forward like a Cavani or Giroud.

OldCastleSwift

IronHerb said:

No one's saying we shouldn't give the EL a go are they? If we are to progress as a club/team then we need to grasp this opportunity to do so. Conceding the league effort shows no ambition imo. There is no guarantee we will do as well in the league this year for sure but should we give up on it with the squad we now have? Not for me.

I get what you're saying, but I guess my fear is that we'll try to commit to both and ultimately do nothing in either.

I'm still not convinced the squad in strong enough to properly compete on three fronts, so something will have to give.

Bazshuayi

Just throwing it out there.... Sturridge is a free agent and apparently has got into shape/kept himself fit. He's obviously got baggage but, to be frank, when Antonio is out and we have Yarmo (too slow etc) and Bowen (too lightweight) we could do worse for a back up striker. At least he has skills and experience in Europe. I'd take him rather than see us make do (which is ridiculous for a club of our size competing in Europe)

alderz

I think signing Sturridge is just a different form of making do. The guy has a terrible injury record and hasn’t played in 18 months. Even before that his record was pretty poor in Turkey. He’s played 133 games and scored 39 goals in all competitions in the past 8 years. It feels like a Wilshere signing, and I’d hope we would have learnt from that.