The Jesse Lingard Derby

ScotHammer

We didn’t deserve anything from this game, but being awarded a penalty in the last minute versus Man Utd, we should have got a point. Some of the players had given everything for 90mins, so would be gutted that all their hard work was thrown away by the manager/sub. You can’t ask people to work so hard, just to get it so wrong on the sidelines?

That said, if Noble had scored, we’d probably be praising a managerial masterstroke.

BubblesNeverDies

This

jay_in_cpt said:

Also a bit of a slap in the face to Declan IMO

And this

epsom_bubbles said:

If I was Rice and was having thoughts of moving, taking the penalty away from him and giving it to a cold Noble, that would settle it for me. Bad decision

Shocking decision to bring Noble on.

EXETERHAMMER

I actually thought a draw would have been fair. We had enough chances, should have had two penalties and not one (foul on Soucek). Dec may well have had two goals if this was given as he would have taken both.

My biggest concern of course is no striker when Antonio is out. Obvious this was gonna bite us, and it already has. Yarmo is not good enough and it is criminal he is on the wages he is.

Slacker

Really can’t beat our football for drama can you?
If an author had written that last five minutes he/she would’ve been laughed out of school.
It really had everything.If Noble had scored we’d all be saying what a masterful tactical move it was but that’s football for you I s’pose.

Tough result to take but we held our own against a fabulously talented side.
Zouma was immense I thought.

chicagohammer

I do not mind losing when we play well and we played well today, now obviously, Rice or anyone else could have stepped up and missed that penalty and I would have felt gutted, but at least I would not have been left with the gut wrenching feeling that we essentially lost because we did something stupid.

On the flip side, if Nobes had scored, I would have been delighted but overwhelmingly relieved as I would still have thought it was a stupid thing to do.

jay_in_cpt

We're the equivalent of England taking pens.
Agree with Luke, pick a starting 11 player who takes them, make him practice and stick with it....
That was poor today from Moyes and again don't agree we didn't deserve anything, we were equal to them IMO..and a point would have been fair...was just not written in the stars I guess..

OldCastleSwift

Just seen a stat that prior to today, Noble hadn't missed a penalty since 2016 and De Gea hadn't saved one since the same year.

Name something more West Ham than the outcome this afternoon.

chicagohammer

How about hiring Ray Stewart as a penalty coach, :-)

jay_in_cpt

OldCastleSwift said:

Just seen a stat that prior to today, Noble hadn't missed a penalty since 2016 and De Gea hadn't saved one since the same year.

Name something more West Ham than the outcome this afternoon.

It was just a shame Noble was ever put in that situation.... If Rice had missed it would have just been one of those things...

No blame to Noble, he has always been a great penalty taker......Just a pity Moyes put him there to fail to start with.....

OldCastleSwift

Lukerz said:

Also feel Fab needs to be replaced now.

Just too many goals going in that I feel are sloppy. He commands his box & we don’t go 2-1 down. Spills the first goal.

It's a tough one. He made a number of great saves, so arguably kept us in the game, but yeah, I felt he could/should possibly have done better with the first goal, and certainly should have claimed the ball in the build up to the second. Areola will play on Wednesday, but I think Fab will be back for Leeds.

yoyo

90 minutes later and still cheesed off

Fortuneseeker

chicagohammer said:

How about hiring Ray Stewart as a penalty coach, :-)

Isn't the answer to any Penalty Coach already in the club - Stuart Pearce?

OldCastleSwift

Soucek has had a poor start to the season, IMO. Possibly gets a rest midweek and hopefully that does the trick. It looks like Rice is being the more progressive CM this season, but it seems to be killing Soucek's game somewhat.

thornburyiron

De Gea hadn’t saved a PL penalty since 2014 so he must have thought it was Christmas when we did what we did.

Slacker

OldCastleSwift said:

Lukerz said:

Also feel Fab needs to be replaced now.

Just too many goals going in that I feel are sloppy. He commands his box & we don’t go 2-1 down. Spills the first goal.

It's a tough one. He made a number of great saves, so arguably kept us in the game, but yeah, I felt he could/should possibly have done better with the first goal, and certainly should have claimed the ball in the build up to the second. Areola will play on Wednesday, but I think Fab will be back for Leeds.

Funny how we all see the same thing but see it differently. I thought Fabianski did well to stop Ronaldo’s first shot.

jay_in_cpt

I'm now over the additional time boo boo.....
Proud to have hold our own ( IMO ) against mega stars and prima donna's....called Man U

COYI.....

OldCastleSwift

Slacker said:

OldCastleSwift said:

Lukerz said:

Also feel Fab needs to be replaced now.

Just too many goals going in that I feel are sloppy. He commands his box & we don’t go 2-1 down. Spills the first goal.

It's a tough one. He made a number of great saves, so arguably kept us in the game, but yeah, I felt he could/should possibly have done better with the first goal, and certainly should have claimed the ball in the build up to the second. Areola will play on Wednesday, but I think Fab will be back for Leeds.

Funny how we all see the same thing but see it differently. I thought Fabianski did well to stop Ronaldo’s first shot.

Yeah, it's fair to say he did. But could he have been quicker to gather it up? I think so.

His bigger error was not claiming the high ball for the second, IMO. If he does that, we probably clear the ball upfield and Lingard doesn't get the chance to score.

He did well today to keep some of the efforts out, I don't think anyone can argue otherwise, but could he have done better in other moments? IMO, yes.

claretandbluesky

Moyes not only made the same mistake as was played out on every TV in the land during the Euro final, so couldn't have missed it, he also sent the message I don't trust any of you with penalties. Whoever takes the next one is really under pressure now. However i heard he gave an interview after the match in which he said he was now considering signing Ray Stewart for a second stint at the club and that he would enter the field of play should we get awarded a penalty.

It could have looked a masterstroke but didn't because as was proven in the euro final you need your eye in by being in the game. I have no doubt Noble would have scored that had he been on twenty minutes, as he had not someone who had should have taken it, Rice, Bowen, Cresswell and Lanzini were all available.

On the positives Zouma will make us a considerably better side, it's clear to see even after two matches.

OldCastleSwift

Yeah, Zouma was clear MOTM today. He's a great signing and will hopefully be in the HOTY running.

I'm a bit concerned that Vlasic may need a while to settle in. No issue with that as such because I think he has the potential to be a very good player for us over the next few years, but in the short-term, with so few options up top, we kind of need him to step up straight away. Some nice moments today but hasn't had much of an impact in either of the games he's started.

Pearces_Left_Foot

Heard vlasic did not have a full pre season and not fully fit today. Just back from game thought performance was decent we gave Man U a decent game thought we tired in last 15 and Man U extra legs from subs was difference. Thought fab shot stopping was good but he did not command his box and seemed rooted to his line too often could have taken an easy ball if he had called in the build up to Lingard s goal . Happy with performance disappointed wis result Zouma was immense

thornburyiron

Maybe Noble would have scored had he been on for about 15 minutes but his run up from about a 75 degree angle tells the keeper exactly where it’s going. It wasn’t even in the corner because De Gea saved it with his right hand.
I don’t think it’s the prime importantance whether he scored or not because it is just wrong on all counts.
He said after the game that he put him on because he’s scored his last few penalties but that still doesn’t make it right. I would still be against it even if he’d scored.

OutcastLondoner

Annoyed with the result but we played well without Antonio. Lots of great performances, especially from Zouma and Rice. Thought Benrahma had a good game linking up with players. Vlasic not fully there but pressed wel, was strong holding it up and worked hard to win it back when he lost it. Bowen had some good moments but his finishing was off today - should’ve put us up early on. That was promising for how we would do against other teams if we didn’t have Antonio.

I thought Moyes should’ve brought on Masuaku or Fredericks for the last 20 mins because we got penned in and couldn’t escape. Benrahma and Bowen looked exhausted and we needed speed to counter. Think we might’ve won if we had an out ball. Yarmolenko’s weird run where he went to the left and cut across Rice as he drove forwards was just bizarre. Was very excited when Noble came on but ultimately that was a silly decision from Moyes. Rice hit the post once and suddenly we’re trying everything with penalties. Just give them to him or someone else and stick with it.

claretandbluesky

Had we secured Lingard instead of Vlasik, and along with Zouma that would have looked some window. Vlasik may come good however, he is doing ok but not improving us at present as Lingard did immediately when he came.

Lingard's goal was wonderful and can't complain about that going in. He is some finisher which is why he was perfect in the absence of Antonio. He will most likely run riot against our reserves if they start him in the Caraboo Cup.

thornburyiron

C&B Lingard was never an option despite what was in the media. Moyes himself said that he was told by OGS at the beginning of the window that he was staying at Utd and Lingard said he did not want to return to us.

Fortuneseeker

IF my checks are correct Vlasic has scored nine out of 14 penalties he has taken in club competitions so he isn't as consistent as Noble is usually.

OutcastLondoner

I think Vlasic could play like Tevez with the right coaching. He’s not Lingard - I think he looked like it in the first moments when he came on last week but this was not a bad performance from him. I think we sent in too many high crosses for such a short front line but he almost did very well with one of the lower ones. Think he and Benrahma will push each other to be better.

horshamhammer

If Moyes's mistakes are down to being too adventurous or too sentimental then I think most can live with it.

Fortuneseeker

Horsham, If I understand correctly people are complaining that David Moyes pays too much respect to the likes of Man U, Liverpool etc & doesn’t have a go at them? He can believe he was right to bring Noble on to take the penalty when he was wrong but we can all be experts after the event.

OutcastLondoner

In the moment everyone around me was excited about Noble taking it.

But we do need to sort out the penalty taking and even if he scored we have the same problem. A regular starter needs to be trusted to take them.

OldCastleSwift

Moyes said we don't have a natural penalty taker in the first XI, but Soucek has scored 10 of 13 taken and Benrahma 6 of 6. Even Yarmolenko has scored 23 of 28. Surely one of these should be given the responsibility if they're on the pitch.

Seems very unprofessional to not have a designated taker five games into the new season, particularly knowing that Noble was unlikely to be on the pitch much.