Transfer Speculation (1st June onwards)

Fortuneseeker

IF we think some of our targets are too expensive wait until they rip the Euros and the price goes up by at least £5-10 million.

Preston, leaving it late means we end up with at best our second or third choice. Remember us chasing Gomez when we all knew he didn't want to come and then we sign someone else.....Cuz can tell you who that was.

I know it's only in the papers but other clubs seem to be keen to get deals going but I suppose we are negotiating all ours behind the scenes just like DM's new contract!

OldCastleSwift

Fortuneseeker said:

IF we think some of our targets are too expensive wait until they rip the Euros and the price goes up by at least £5-10 million.

Preston, leaving it late means we end up with at best our second or third choice. Remember us chasing Gomez when we all knew he didn't want to come and then we sign someone else.....Cuz can tell you who that was.

I know it's only in the papers but other clubs seem to be keen to get deals going but I suppose we are negotiating all ours behind the scenes just like DM's new contract!

I'm not sure that's even happening if Ex is to be believed. If Moyes hasn't given Sullivan his final list, then it's unlikely that Sullivan has got too far with the negotiations.

On your first point, it is a risk. Kral, for example, could constitute good business at £20m (which is what Spartak have reportedly valued him at), because a good tournament will, as you say, add at least another 25% to his price tag and attract more (better) suitors.

alderz

I don't really buy this idea that Moyes makes a spreadsheet with all the players he wants to sign and emails it over to Sullivan. Surely there are ongoing conversations about positions we want / need to fill, and they'll be constantly talking about players too. I just don't see that Moyes hands over a shopping list.

claretandbluesky

It's fair to not go in at asking, the price will become clear when others begin to show interest and make offers. The problem is although this is good business it can provoke the issue that you wait until a real price gets established by the usual factor of demand but the player chooses someone else and you are too late to get other targets. So potentially over paying early can be a part of a strategy, it depends what is most valuable to you - to get the players you want or risk losing them and time running out to get anyone on your list by waiting too long. If you are City you probably choose to potentially over pay to ensure you get your man but if you are out of the top four you probably need ensure value so you get the most from your budget.

OldCastleSwift

alderz said:

I don't really buy this idea that Moyes makes a spreadsheet with all the players he wants to sign and emails it over to Sullivan. Surely there are ongoing conversations about positions we want / need to fill, and they'll be constantly talking about players too. I just don't see that Moyes hands over a shopping list.

I'm sure those conversations are happening, and you would expect that any professional, competent, Director of Football to be engaging with all of the manager's target's clubs to sound out whether a deal is possible and then act immediately when Moyes makes his final decision.

But we don't have one of those. We have David Sullivan. So who knows what's going on right now.

alderz

OldCastleSwift said:

alderz said:

I don't really buy this idea that Moyes makes a spreadsheet with all the players he wants to sign and emails it over to Sullivan. Surely there are ongoing conversations about positions we want / need to fill, and they'll be constantly talking about players too. I just don't see that Moyes hands over a shopping list.

I'm sure those conversations are happening, and you would expect that any professional, competent, Director of Football to be engaging with all of the manager's target's clubs to sound out whether a deal is possible and then act immediately when Moyes makes his final decision.

But we don't have one of those. We have David Sullivan. So who knows what's going on right now.

True. But I also remember Moyes making recommendations on restructuring and changing the way we do things behind the scenes. I'd be amazed if he agreed to come back for a second spell if nothing had changed / he didn't have some assurances that things would be different.

OldCastleSwift

alderz said:

OldCastleSwift said:

alderz said:

I don't really buy this idea that Moyes makes a spreadsheet with all the players he wants to sign and emails it over to Sullivan. Surely there are ongoing conversations about positions we want / need to fill, and they'll be constantly talking about players too. I just don't see that Moyes hands over a shopping list.

I'm sure those conversations are happening, and you would expect that any professional, competent, Director of Football to be engaging with all of the manager's target's clubs to sound out whether a deal is possible and then act immediately when Moyes makes his final decision.

But we don't have one of those. We have David Sullivan. So who knows what's going on right now.

True. But I also remember Moyes making recommendations on restructuring and changing the way we do things behind the scenes. I'd be amazed if he agreed to come back for a second spell if nothing had changed / he didn't have some assurances that things would be different.

Which may explain the delay in him signing the contract? If he's not getting the assurances from Sullivan that things will change, maybe he's open to listening to offers from owners that are on the same page. Let's face it, his stock is as high now as it was when he left Everton; I wouldn't blame him for walking if he wasn't getting the backing he needs.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

OldCastleSwift said:

alderz said:

OldCastleSwift said:

alderz said:

I don't really buy this idea that Moyes makes a spreadsheet with all the players he wants to sign and emails it over to Sullivan. Surely there are ongoing conversations about positions we want / need to fill, and they'll be constantly talking about players too. I just don't see that Moyes hands over a shopping list.

I'm sure those conversations are happening, and you would expect that any professional, competent, Director of Football to be engaging with all of the manager's target's clubs to sound out whether a deal is possible and then act immediately when Moyes makes his final decision.

But we don't have one of those. We have David Sullivan. So who knows what's going on right now.

True. But I also remember Moyes making recommendations on restructuring and changing the way we do things behind the scenes. I'd be amazed if he agreed to come back for a second spell if nothing had changed / he didn't have some assurances that things would be different.

Which may explain the delay in him signing the contract? If he's not getting the assurances from Sullivan that things will change, maybe he's open to listening to offers from owners that are on the same page. Let's face it, his stock is as high now as it was when he left Everton; I wouldn't blame him for walking if he wasn't getting the backing he needs.

Maybe he’s just on holiday.

OldCastleSwift

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

OldCastleSwift said:

alderz said:

OldCastleSwift said:

alderz said:

I don't really buy this idea that Moyes makes a spreadsheet with all the players he wants to sign and emails it over to Sullivan. Surely there are ongoing conversations about positions we want / need to fill, and they'll be constantly talking about players too. I just don't see that Moyes hands over a shopping list.

I'm sure those conversations are happening, and you would expect that any professional, competent, Director of Football to be engaging with all of the manager's target's clubs to sound out whether a deal is possible and then act immediately when Moyes makes his final decision.

But we don't have one of those. We have David Sullivan. So who knows what's going on right now.

True. But I also remember Moyes making recommendations on restructuring and changing the way we do things behind the scenes. I'd be amazed if he agreed to come back for a second spell if nothing had changed / he didn't have some assurances that things would be different.

Which may explain the delay in him signing the contract? If he's not getting the assurances from Sullivan that things will change, maybe he's open to listening to offers from owners that are on the same page. Let's face it, his stock is as high now as it was when he left Everton; I wouldn't blame him for walking if he wasn't getting the backing he needs.

Maybe he’s just on holiday.

Every chance, Jorderz. I just find it a bit strange that if both parties were happy, why wasn't this all signed off before his holiday?

Stuart Pearce's comments haven't exactly helped; he's been offered a deal to stay but has said his 'loyalty is with Moyes', which could imply Moyes has yet to commit.

Fortuneseeker

OCS, Surely there can't be better suitors than us.

alderz, You would hope that DM had some assurances that things would be different second time around that he is why NES isn't going to the Palace, the Crystal one, as they don't like the conditions he has outlined before taking the job.

OldCastleSwift

I wish Nuno had signed Nene and Nani.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Fortuneseeker said:

IF we think some of our targets are too expensive wait until they rip the Euros and the price goes up by at least £5-10 million.

Preston, leaving it late means we end up with at best our second or third choice. Remember us chasing Gomez when we all knew he didn't want to come and then we sign someone else.....Cuz can tell you who that was.

I know it's only in the papers but other clubs seem to be keen to get deals going but I suppose we are negotiating all ours behind the scenes just like DM's new contract!

And then we overpay...

Remember Enner Valencia getting signed off a great world Cup and wasn't worth half what we paid

If we think Kral is worth £15mil then the think he's worth £15mil, even if Prague want £20mil

We shouldn't end up spending £30mil if he does have a good world Cup

If we went off international performances Yarmolenko would have teams after him for £50mil!!

Cuz1

Or a fiver depending on what game you watched

Fortuneseeker

WHU, We can pay Prague £20 million but he doesn’t play for them! Euros not World Cup. 😉

Ravel49

West Ham have stepped up efforts to sign Jesse Lingard on a permanent deal from Manchester United after the 28-year-old England midfielder missed out on selection for the European Championship. (Sun)

PrestonHammer

By stepping up, do they mean Dave's got his signing players suit on and pen in hand?

Pearces_Left_Foot

I think half the transfer stories are Coufal/Soucek tapping up aCzech players they just insert a different players name in and recycle

ASLEFshrugged

Borussia Dortmund reject £67m for Sancho from Man U (BBC). BVD want £77.5m with "an additional £4.25m bonus payment"

IronHerb

What a waste of money.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Buendia could end up costing Villa £38mil

That's some money for a championship player, if he ends up like Watkins they'd be laughing

yoyo

Sancho has looked no better than "good" whenever I've seen him on TV. Admittedly that's not alot but he doesn't look a world beater. I hope for England's sake he is

alderz

He’s 21. His numbers are incredible.

The only reason people don’t rate him is because they don’t watch him very often.

EDIT: it’s not on the graphic, but in 2018/19 he had 13 goals and 20 assists in 43 games.

That’s 60 assists and 49 goals in 125 games.

claretandbluesky

His age alone makes him a much better investment than Harry Kane, If you paid 80m for both in 3 years time you could easily get that back on Sancho as he will be 24, with Kane you would probably get not too much back as nobody is paying 80m for a 31 year old.

I think unless Kane goes to City no other club will offer anywhere near what Spurs will be looking for due to that very reason. Sancho, 21, Rice 22, Greilish 25 and Kane 28 by the start of next season. All four will make a big difference to any club yet only three are really going to retain value.

IronHerb

But Haller scored plenty in Germany.

OldCastleSwift

I think Kane will have half an eye on Shearer's PL goal record, so I think he'll prefer to stay in the PL. As C&BSky says, I think only City can can a) afford him and b) offer him the trophies he wants.

OutcastLondoner

People like to get excited by Haaland but in highlights I’ve watched it’s often Sancho who has set up the goal. He deserves more credit than he gets IMO.

alderz

IronHerb said:

But Haller scored plenty in Germany.

I know we've had this conversation a million times on here, but I don't think there was any doubt that Haller is a good footballer, he just didn't fit our system.

If Burnley bought Sancho I'm sure he'd be a lot less effective than if he joined Manchester United or City or Liverpool, because the styles of play are so different.

EDIT: And Haller only scored goals in one season in Germany. He scored 15 in 29 in his last season at Frankfurt, but he got 9 the year before. I think their records are very different.

IronHerb

That's right but just quoting stats doesn't show that he would necessarily achieve those elsewhere.
I'm not saying he's no good but at £80m he's overpriced.

OutcastLondoner

It's not just his stats though. He's an incredibly effective counterattacker. Not reliant on pace like Man United's other attackers, he makes really good decisions about when to take a player on and plays passes through tight spaces. He can also get through tight defences, which Man U's current players are almost incapable of. Rice also isn't worth £80m+ really but Dortmund are probably in an even stronger position than us to not sell.

He also missed 11 games this season and still produced great stats.

ASLEFshrugged

At Frankfurt Haller usually played alongside another striker