Newcastle v West Ham Saturday April 17 @ 12:30 (on SKY )

Dodger58

I think Johnson has shown himself to be a good full back in a back four, but when played in the wing back or even midfield position he has struggled and clearly does not really know what he’s supposed to be doing.

He clearly has talent and his goal line clearance was superb, so I hope we show a little more patience and encouragement, as he could be an excellent long term servant of the club. He just needs time and a bit of focused coaching to help him work on the different roles he is being asked to fulfil.

ASLEFshrugged

Coming back from 2-0 down with 10 men
Having 65% possession, pretty much the same when we had 11 men as 10 men
Having 12 shots in the second half to Newcastle's 5, ending up 16 shots each

This is a very different West Ham from previous seasons

As someone mentioned last week we don't get a lot at St James' Park

At least Callum Wilson didn't score!

Fortuneseeker

ASLEF, that is all well and done but we don’t get much at Burnley or Brighton so on that basis where is that going to leave us?

thornburyiron

I think it’s going to take one mighty effort to get anything out of Chelsea the way they’re playing recently.

OutcastLondoner

Cuz1 said:

I can’t see Johnson having as good as career as rice at this moment in time, unless he’s playing on the right, and can’t see that happening with us unfortunately, that’s not a slight on him just that we have a better player in that position

This may be controversial but as good as Coufal is, he has shortcomings, mainly in attack. If Johnson can get some game time and prove himself then maybe he could offer competition. The cups next season could be that opportunity and even Europa if we get it.

BubblesNeverDies

I'm amazed that Haller who cost a fortune and didn't produce is still defended whereas a homegrown young player in his first season in EPL is so criticised and written off.
Where's that shaking head emoji?

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Cuz1 said:

I can’t see Johnson having as good as career as rice at this moment in time, unless he’s playing on the right, and can’t see that happening with us unfortunately, that’s not a slight on him just that we have a better player in that position

And why does he have to have as good a career as Rice to be considered a success? That's just ridiculous standard to judge him against

When coufal was 21 he had only 10 games in a season in the Czech first league (and not at Prague)

claretandbluesky

It's arguable that Declan Rice will be the Bobby Moore of his generation, Captain of West Ham and England and having the same impact in the matches he plays. As for Johnson this season has been great as he has had pitch time. In three years time he will be 24 and probably a much more rounded defender, he cant short cut getting the match time and being around the senior players that will make him that player.

Not only can we not compare him to Rice but probably not even to Glenn Johnson who was also some player and England international, but there certainly looks enough top say he will be an asset to the team in some shape or form.

Cuz1

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:

Cuz1 said:

I can’t see Johnson having as good as career as rice at this moment in time, unless he’s playing on the right, and can’t see that happening with us unfortunately, that’s not a slight on him just that we have a better player in that position

And why does he have to have as good a career as Rice to be considered a success? That's just ridiculous standard to judge him against

When coufal was 21 he had only 10 games in a season in the Czech first league (and not at Prague)

I was referring to the quote ref rice making a mistake at Newcastle and it’s only my opinion on Johnson not making the grade, you don’t have to agree with it

Cuz1

BubblesNeverDies said:

I'm amazed that Haller who cost a fortune and didn't produce is still defended whereas a homegrown young player in his first season in EPL is so criticised and written off.
Where's that shaking head emoji?

Who’s writing him off ?

Slacker

I just don’t get this stuff about Johnson.
He’s a young kid just starting to make his way in one of the toughest leagues in Europe.I think people should cut the lad a bit of slack.
Not every boy who breaks into the first team is an instant success.
Have some patience.

ASLEFshrugged

Fortuneseeker said:

ASLEF, that is all well and done but we don’t get much at Burnley or Brighton so on that basis where is that going to leave us?

Finishing this season a lot higher up the table than anyone expected?

A lot of talk in the media about us blowing our chance to get into Europe today but who expected to get into Europe this season? I certainly didn't so if we don't then I'm not going to be disappointed.

I'm just a "glass half full" person and when the glass is empty I get another drink

baracks_a_hammer

Not sure what the problem is. A few people are raising questions as to whether he is PL standard. Surely there is nothing wrong with that? Some will agree others may not. No-one at all is questioning his commitment, effort or attitude. All of which, IMO are spot on.

steve

Would love Johnson to become a great player for us ,But at the moment we are trying to push for top 4 .not mid table where he could have got some games .So it comes down to our lack of numbers and injures .So not only does he have to play but play in differant positions ,Perhaps we should try him in goal against chelsea

Cuz1

No not goalkeeper we’ve got enough of them 😂😂

ASLEFshrugged

Is Johnson PL standard?
No

Will be ever be?
Who knows, he's 21 and before this season he'd only played 4 PL games. He's only there because both our LBs who are PL standard are injured and apparently the gaffer thinks he's better on the left than Fredericks or Coufal

(I suspect its more a case that Coufal is too good at RB not to play him there and I can't find any record of Coufal ever playing anywhere other than on the right side)

Fortuneseeker

ASLEF, There may have not been an expectation that we would qualify for Europe via the league this season but I refuse to just write off today as we don't get much from St James Park usually so we shouldn't have expected a better outcome. That is why I asked the question about how the visits to Turf Moor & The Amex should be viewed based on our previous records at those grounds.

We appear to have run out of the good fortune today which had helped us win our two previous games as has Craig Dawson. Six games left so how many points do people think we need now to ensure we qualify for the Europa League next season that is of course based on a Manchester City win next Sunday and a CFC v LCFC FA Cup Final?

Lukerz

65 points I think will get us Europa. 10 more points from 6 games.

Lukerz

Also, not that it matters, but surely Dawson should have been sent off then & there & the goal not scored? Pretty sure you have to send a player off immediately for a second bookable unless there is a clear opportunity to immediately score (such as Dawson fouling the guy & somebody else immediately tapping the ball in).

MrsGrey

They do disallow goals for fouls in the build up... But they also play advantage then go back and book players after.

ASLEFshrugged

Fortuneseeker said:

ASLEF, There may have not been an expectation that we would qualify for Europe via the league this season but I refuse to just write off today as we don't get much from St James Park usually so we shouldn't have expected a better outcome. That is why I asked the question about how the visits to Turf Moor & The Amex should be viewed based on our previous records at those grounds.

We appear to have run out of the good fortune today which had helped us win our two previous games as has Craig Dawson. Six games left so how many points do people think we need now to ensure we qualify for the Europa League next season that is of course based on a Manchester City win next Sunday and a CFC v LCFC FA Cup Final?

We didn't run out of "good fortune" today, we came back from 2-0 down with 10 men That was partly due to Steve Bruce making the huge mistake of parking the bus when they could have pushed on and scored more but also it speaks loads about the attitude of our players under Moyes.

We've been playing great football, its not good fortune, its good management and good players.

Lukerz

But I think that is only allowed if a first yellow card. I am pretty sure FA rules state a player should be dismissed if it’s a sending off offence or second bookable offence.

Either that or you allow the goal but don’t send the player off, as Dawson’s ‘take one for the team’ didn’t result in him doing what he intended to do.

OutcastLondoner

Don't know what the rule is but think how it played out was fair.

Cuz1

I dislike the term taking one for the team imo that’s blatant cheating and along with diving should be given as a straight red

alderz

I thought the ref handled it really well. If it had been against any rules I’m sure there would have protestations from Moyes at the time or after the game. I personally don’t have an issue with how the ref handled it.

Kuchinghammer

I don't think the loss was due to a St James' Park hoodoo, or running out of luck. It's more because we reached a tipping point with key injuries four games ago, and now Moyes is having to experiment every game and use players- out of position. Every match becomes a gamble, and this time it didn't pay off.

Kuchinghammer

Oh, and a big thumbs up for Bowen, he's 100% back in form and never gave up. Our next Mark Noble?

alderz

Watching the highlights again, and:
1. Diop’s own goal is actually awful. I have no idea what he was trying to do, but it was appalling. I don’t know how Fabianski was beaten by the shot, but yeah. Awful.
2. Yes, Johnson should have won the header against Willock. But I don’t think it was as much of a clanger as I did yesterday, and instead I think the bigger issue was that Fab got two full hands on the ball and only managed to palm it onto the underside of the bar. 100% the keeper should be stopping that, and when you couple it with him dropping the ball for the second goal it really was an awful performance from him.
3. I didn’t realise that both of Dawson’s fouls were on Joelinton. Don’t foul him! Just let him have the ball!

ASLEFshrugged

The MotD analysis was pretty spot on, Newcastle set up to defend with 11 men behind the ball, allowed us plenty of possession and then countered on the break.

The mistake was to carry on with the same tactics after Dawson was sent off, they sat on the lead and allowed us back into the game.

Apart from being fouled twice and being in the right place at the right time when Fabianski dropped the ball Joelinton did nothing. Dawson's fault 100%.

Diop can be a bit "Carlton Palmer", hopefully he learns with age and as for Fabianski even Parkes had a bad day.

Johnson is 5' 9", Willock is 6' 1"

End of the day we came back from 2-0 down to draw with 10 men, we didn't crumble the way some West Ham sides have done in the past and if we'd had 11 men for 90 minutes we'd probably have won.

OutcastLondoner

I kept forgetting Joelinton was playing, it was like ASM was up front on his own.