Chelsea v Westham Monday 21st December 2020. The Jimmy Greaves derby.

Fortuneseeker

BND, message to me I will have to check on line to see how many goals Antonio, who I rate, has actually scored without any assistance from his team mates as it is a team game.

OutcastLondoner

Fortuneseeker said:

I see Comedy Hour has started on here again! A striker can't score without any service. Mendy didn't have a save to make tonight that is a stat we should be getting more concerned about not so much how our centre forward played.

To be honest, that service isn't coming. Whatever works for Haller, we don't do it, so he doesn't work for us. I'd like to see him play with Antonio but unless and until we get that, it's a struggle. It might be best to move him on. We certainly need another option.

Fortuneseeker

Outcast, I reckon you are right but that begs the question about why did we sign him if we knew what formation was needed to get the best of him?

CleverTrevor

I think we got 6 minutes in the end including the Moyes interview and Carragher trying his best to prove Bowen made contact with Thiago Silva for the disallowed goal. Even though it clearly showed there was no contact he said he believes there must have been a slight contact!

Yeoldhammer

I just hate having a tall man up front with no pace, unless he has some pace about him i just don't like strikers with no pace at all. All the top teams play with a nimble hard working forward.

Aguero / Vardy / Firmino / Ings.

I'm glad Moyes is getting more out of the midfield in terms of work rate but as Klopp has said before for Liverpool the hard work starts at the very front like Firmino does for Liverpool. Its why we are way more effective with Antonio. Personally i think we need to shift Haller and i reckon Moyes is probably on this wave length too.

Left back is just a dead horse at the moment and until we go to a back 5 left back will constantly be a problem.

whupathman

so my take, I think we tried hard and played much better than the score. Bowen was so unlucky not to have his goal stand, which was huge. Cresswell got caught out for 2 maybe 3 goals. Basically we only have 1 fit striker who does not fit into how we play and having 2 keepers on the bench shows how weak our depth of squad is. This lack of depth is down to the board, we have done very well up to now and we need some signings to push onto top 10. At least we are not Arsenal

OutcastLondoner

Fortuneseeker said:

Outcast, I reckon you are right but that begs the question about why did we sign him if we knew what formation was needed to get the best of him?

That is the question. I think terrible/non-existent scouting. The same question to be asked of Hernandez. We've bought strikers off name rather than looked at who fits us. We need to find more like Diafra Sakho.

BubblesNeverDies

Fortuneseeker said:

Outcast, I reckon you are right but that begs the question about why did we sign him if we knew what formation was needed to get the best of him?

You'd have to ask Pelle about that.

jay_in_cpt

IMO Moyes has to take the blame for poor team selection.. Haller is frustrating to watch, and sadly does not put himself around enough, he might not have got the best service, but he also has to get stuck in more.
We miss Antonio, and the lack of options is evident to see...

Moyes moaning about poor decisions is clutching at straws for me, Bowen clearly tripped player in build up ( even if unintentionally)....

A back 4 against a top team is asking for trouble IMO, Moyes has to be brave here..

Oh well, guess most of us would have grabbed the points we have at this stage...I am happy for this...

Let’s just hope Moyes sees the back 4 is not a good idea to play with against top teams...
And Cresswell in a back 4 is nowhere as good..

Pengeman

Cresswell was at fault for all three Chelsea goals.
We need to revert to 3-5-2/3-4-3 formation before confidence in drained from team. We played 4-4-2/4-5-1 and lost to Chelsea, MANU, drew with Palace and had a narrow win against Leeds and were luck to beat Fulham and Sheff U. We don't have the defenders to play 4-4-2 against a good/mid-table team. Ben Johnson was a left back and can playe LWB, I think. Need to revert to 3-5-2/3-4-3.

Cuz1

And that’s why I’m still not convinced with moyes to bring noble back tonight was so wrong he’s been a fantastic servant but should only make subs bench at best

Fortuneseeker

BND, I'd rather not if that is ok as he thought Roberto should be our first choice keeper to replace Fabianski.

Outcast, we have been linked with a striker from Lique 1 maybe he is the new Sakho.

https://www.hammers.news/transfer-news/report-west-ham-leading-the-race-to-sign-red-hot-striker-boulaye-dia/

OutcastLondoner

5 at the back made lots of players better. 4 at the back makes lots of players worse. I think only Coufal might be better in this formation.

Cresswell is a completely different player.

I really don't understand what Moyes thought he was getting from Noble tonight. It's time to give him a dignified route out. Having him as a leading presence when we're holding on is useful but he's not the player we need to get us through games anymore. He felt like a passenger.

BubblesNeverDies

Regarding Antonio, he makes things happen, whereas Haller waits for things to happen.
Actually, I've really wanted Haller to succeed and I've refrained from being too critical, but it's clear that he just doesn't work with Moyes's set-up, which in itself is constrained by a lack of funds.
Pelle spent £70m on 2 players who are not contributing anything at present.
Moyes must be thinking how he would have liked to have been given that budget.
Yes I know he signed Jordan Hugill, but he also signed Bowen, Soucek and Coufal.

Brother_Sledge

I am afraid the problem with Haller is more serious than how we set up. He just seems to lack ability and is so slow off the mark - he barely kept possession at all even from throw-ins with players near to him. At least three times he surprised me by being first to the ball only to be flagged offside. An awful waste of money not worth half what we paid. I would definitely prefer Yarmolenko.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Unfortunately Haller is what we have at the club, so we have to try and persevere (still not sure about Yarmolenko as a CF)

Moyes didn't buy him, so hard to blame how he's utilising him....he obviously favours quick powerful strikers like Arnie and Antonio

Think Haller has talent, but I do think he's wasted at us....but can't change our system just to benefit one player if the others are already doing well

Not upset with the result last night, need to remember that this is essentially the same team that came 16th last year and were in a relegation dogfight up until the last two or three games of the season

But thought we showed great fight after going down, Chelsea looked like they were going to run riot and while they eventually did, 3-0 flatters them

We obviously need to create/take more chances, but you have to be honest about the quality at the club, the fact we are sitting 10th is about right.....

Going into Christmas positive

Pearces_Left_Foot

Haller would get better service if he actually made some runs instead of ambling around upfront he does n't create space for himself he had a header which he put wide but he does n't do enough without the ball not all his fault as he is isolated but he does n't move the defenders around to create space for others or himself.

Brother_Sledge

Two games now without a yellow card obviously a good thing but are we lacking a bit of bite ? Even Noble who I thought did ok went 90 minutes without one!

Lukerz

We have to try & find a way of playing when we have lots of the ball. I felt Benrahma & Yarmolenko should have been on earlier, because the game was geared up for us having lots of the ball & we didn’t have the personnel suited to that on the pitch. So what we got was lots of the ball, in non-dangerous areas, & then crosses being whipped in with little thought. What we needed was a Lanzini or a Benrahma on at half-time to get us on the ball in central areas & make something happen. When Benrahma did come on, I didn’t agree with Fornals going off & I felt Moyes made a mistake sticking Benrahma on the left, instead of behind Haller. We needed some composure & creativity in the middle. Chelsea were more than happy letting us have it & dealing with our crosses, knowing at some point in the second half they would get a chance or two & are likely to be far more clinical.

baracks_a_hammer

The outcome was decided even before kick off.

Back 4 with Cress at l/b and Noble in midfield. Madness.

Moyes has rightly earned a lot of praise this season but yesterday was totally on him

Let’s hope this sound beating doesn’t affect confidence as we move towards the game against our bogey side.

ScotHammer

Arnie was converted into a centre forward successfully, so why not give Yarmolenko a go. Can’t be any worse than right now. And surely it is plain to see we are not even drawing games as a back 4, and need to go with a 3, even if it means we lose some attacking threat from LWB. At least our defence would be better.

Slacker

I think if somebody sees that result but not the game it’ll look like a bit of a thrashing.
Obviously that’s not the case but for all our good football their keeper never had a save to make.
It seems as plain as the nose on your face that we need a third striker or possibly two if Haller gets shipped out next month.Unfortunately it’s just not working with him.

BubblesNeverDies

Wash my mouth out but Calum Wilson would have been a better buy (although I would have hated to see him in the shirt) 😖

Pearces_Left_Foot

Arsenal are considering a move for 24-year-old Valencia and Uruguay striker Maxi Gomez. (Mirror)

BubblesNeverDies

Just watched the highlights again and how the hell was the 3rd goal allowed to stand after Pulisic had flattened Fabianski?
Compare that to the Thiago dive that caused Bowen's goal to be disallowed.
Getting really fed up with these decisions always going against us. 😡

buffybegood

BubblesNeverDies said:

Just watched the highlights again and how the hell was the 3rd goal allowed to stand after Pulisic had flattened Fabianski?
Compare that to the Thiago dive that caused Bowen's goal to be disallowed.
Getting really fed up with these decisions always going against us. 😡

I said this during the game, even though keepers (obviously not ours) get too much protection imo, Fab was completely taken out; can't believe it was allowed to stand.

baracks_a_hammer

I would normally say that at 2-0 with only 10 minutes left, it wouldn’t have mattered as our goose was already cooked.

But then I think back to the Spurs game...

BubblesNeverDies

Baracks, if Chris Kavanagh hadn't been so keen to whistle and instead had let play continue and allow VAR to decide, Bowen's goal would have been rightly given. Whole different game then.

Fortuneseeker

Do we need to ask for Chris Kavanagh to join Lee Mason on the naughty step?

steve

Kind of hate Chelsea now as well .,,,,,,But then i always did really