West Ham United v Burnley - The Joe Hart Derby

yoyo

We're crying out for a cutting edge, someone to run at a team and make them tremble. We're devoid of ideas. I don't see an answer

IronHerb

I do, 3-0.

thornburyiron

I really don’t see us beating either Norwich or Watford and I’m fearful that Bournemouth and Villa can’t keep losing every game.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Surprised by some of the reactions

Thought we had the better chances in the 1st half, and should've been ahead

Burnley getting the 1st was always going to be an uphill battle. Their form has been much much better than ours, and they have the most clean sheets after liverpool (or at least their keeper has)

thornburyiron

The plan was that we didn’t expect anything out of the Wolves, Spurs and Chelsea games but targeted the last 6 games to get the points needed to survive. Fortunately we got 3 unexpected points against Chelsea because we’ve not made an auspicious start to the last 6 games with only 1 point from 6 so far. Norwich and Watford if not must win games are most definitely must not lose games provided Villa and Bournemouth get nothing.
I really really don’t want to go into the Villa game needing a point or worst case scenario having to win because whatever we need to do we are incapable of doing it.

thornburyiron

WHU clean sheets are something we can only dream about. We have the two worst full backs in the top division as neither can deliver a decent cross when going forward and have no idea of positioning or preventing crosses when defending.
Any team we play who are reasonably defensively adept we will struggle against because if we can’t or don’t score then we are done for because we will concede.
We go into every game knowing we must score at least 2 to stand a cat in hells chance of winning and I’m sure our forwards know there is pressure on them because they can’t trust our defence.

thornburyiron

Watching Brighton against Liverpool and thinking back to how we threw away a 3-1 lead.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

I'm pretty surprised by the negativity on here. I get that it was a horribly frustrating game, but we played the right way, created more than enough chances to win and didn't really give many chances away.

Wasteful in our finishing? Sure. But bottlers and a lack of effort? Come on. We were the better side but ultimately didn't get the breaks.

Cresswell switched off and Rodriguez scored off his back. We could easily have scored 3 from chances we created with decent football. So I think the performance was actually okay and we were pretty unlucky. Not perfect at either end of the pitch by any means, but we could easily watch that exact same performance and it be 3-0 to us next time.

Burnley are no mugs and know how to suck the life out of games. We're by no means the worst team to be frustrated by them this season.

Hamstew

I think we'll beat Norwich

thornburyiron

We’ve now lost 19 of our 34 games this season.

IronHerb

By your own argument thorn we will be fine.
Norwich and Villa have conceded more than us and Watford a few less. This means they are not defensively adept, and so make them very winnable games

thornburyiron

They may not be defensively adept but we are not offensively adept. All three of those are capable of scoring goals and we are more than capable of conceding. Unfortunately as poor as they are at defending our goal to chance ratio is weak as our on target shot record is particular poor.
As I said earlier we need to score at least twice in each game to stand a chance of winning it because I have no confidence of our being able to keep a clean sheet. Our full backs seem to have no idea of where the opposition is most of the time and by the time they realise the ball is out wide and go out the cross has been put in and it’s all too easy.
Against Wolves the goals came from right wing crosses, against Newcastle right wing crosses, tonight a right wing cross. Wood missed a sitter when the ball fell at his feet from a left wing cross and they had a disallowed goal from a right wing cross.
We don’t seem able to stop crosses going in nor dealing with them when they come in.
We must start Haller on Saturday as he is our only recognised striker and provide him with a decent service. We simply have to beat Norwich and at least avoid defeat against Watford because I don’t want to go into the Villa game needing to win.

IronHerb

I just don't get it. We've scored more goals than the four teams below us. We've conceded less goals than three of them. All the teams are where they are because they are poor. Yet we, in some posters write, are worse than all of them. I just don't get it.

alderz

Sorry thorn, but I think you’re wearing... what’s the opposite of rose tinted glasses? Angry glasses?

We might not be great going forward, but we’ve scored more league goals than every team in the bottom half except Southampton. You can’t say that the teams around us look more like scoring when we have outscored them all, bagged 5 in the last week, and missed a hatful today.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Against Wolves I couldn't see where the goals were going to come from

Didnt feel that at all today, we had 3 huge chances and they scored with a bit of a fluke (like it hits his shoulder and goes the ONLY place Fab cant get to)

They also shouldve had a red card

OutcastLondoner

We've not been good this season. I think we've mostly been even worse under Moyes. But I think the last few games have shown a little bit more, like they've finally understood that some intensity is useful that. And that it's a good to repeat that the next game, when it works.

I also honestly think the Fabianski injury and Roberto was a humongous disaster that really set us back. I think we're better than the other teams. We're not safe, we can easily throw it away, but we've also got enough to be better than them. We're partly in this position because a horrible run of form with a keeper who shattered the team's confidence and the way we played.

Pearces_Left_Foot

I thought we played alright we created two very good chances and a free half chances and Burnley scored with their only real effort on goal I thought the performance was fine Burnley are a tough team to beat they have lost 1 in 12 and that was against the champions. I think we will get at least 1 win and a few draws with the games remaining

mike

We seemed to run out of ideas in the second half.Putting over hopeful crosses against a team like burnley was never going to work.

jay_in_cpt

Outcast I agree with most of your comments, I think you could have given credit to a extremly overrated manager in Pelle, who was stubborn as hell, and who refused to change his tactics or a keeper that we could all see was useless for ages ( far too long ) and now having a very IMO average manager, IMO we are a very average team, so perhaps it's a better fit ?

heathrowhammer

Players looked fatigued last night, so chances we had were not snapped up. Substitutions/rotating squad are not being managed properly imo.
Mathematically still in our hands, so still hoping we got enough in us to stay up.

OutcastLondoner

jay_in_cpt said:

Outcast I agree with most of your comments, I think you could have given credit to a extremly overrated manager in Pelle, who was stubborn as hell, and who refused to change his tactics or a keeper that we could all see was useless for ages ( far too long ) and now having a very IMO average manager, IMO we are a very average team, so perhaps it's a better fit ?

Yeah agree about Pelle. I think he was really wedded to using the offside trap as key to our defence and it often worked really well last season and early this but Roberto completely shattered the team confidence to allow that and Pelle did a terrible job adapting.

I think we're an average team with a manager who has shown so far that he's below average. I think if the last three games become the level to consistently expect, then we'll be an average team and I'll be fine with that.

The more I read about involvement of Pelle's son and how the club was run, I think he was bad for us. The ownership did a bad job with the club structure regarding scouting but Pelle really fed into that.

ASLEFshrugged

What I don't understand is that with Burnley set up in 4-4-2 why Oggy was marking Vydra, Diop was marking no one and Cresswell was left to deal with Rodriquez.

Starting Bowen on the left and Yarmolenko on the right didn't work as well as Bowen on the right and Lanzini on the left. Bowen has to start on the right which means Yarmolenko is going to have to get used to being an impact sub.

Now Haller is back maybe we can play Antonio on the left, Bowen on the right and Fornals in the hole but in the summer we need to find someone to replace/back up Anderson because playing players out-of-position just isn't good enough.

Hamstew

Antonio looks spent and did by half time. Can't blame him. If only we had opportunities for lots of subs.

ASLEFshrugged

True, maybe give Antonio the day off on Saturday, play Haller in front of Lanzini, Fornals and Bowen.

IronHerb

Antonio always looks shattered though. Play him for an hour or so then sub him off.

buffybegood

Tbh, it was a dreadful bit of defending by Cresswell. Admittedly, they still got lucky, but Cresswell deserves to be crucified for prodding a foot at the ball when he could easily have reached it ahead of Rodriguez if he'd have gone with his head. Absolutely dreadful.

ASLEFshrugged

Cresswell is 5' 7", Rodriguez is 6' 1", he should never have been left marking him in the first place.

Was Diop marking Johnny X?

IronHerb

Doesn't matter who you should or shouldn't be marking, you have to show some commitment.

buffybegood

ASLEFshrugged said:

Cresswell is 5' 7", Rodriguez is 6' 1", he should never have been left marking him in the first place.

Was Diop marking Johnny X?

His height had nothing to do with it, as is proved by the fact that he was trying to play it with his foot. You can't get away from the fact that it was a shockingly bad bit of defending.

alderz

ASLEF

He was marking him because he was the last man, and the whole defence shifted across to the right. I don’t think the issue is that he was marking him, it’s that he did a terrible job when he got there.