Brexit

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Comments

  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    Can be applied to almost any issue: I thik you'll fid its abit more complcated
    Barney said:

    Grey - that applies to General elections as well so I dont think there should be an exception for the Brexit vote.

    The referendum and elections are completely different forms of democracy.

    We get to have a rethink and a new vote in an election.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    edited March 2019
    Plus elections are based on clearly defined manifestos and people vote based on a whole raft of different reasons.

    The referendum was an oversimplified binary choice, so not comparable, IMO.
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    The last election was based on clearly defined manifesto of leaving the EU but totally reneged on by most of the elected MPs
  • IronHerbIronHerb


    :doh:
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    thornburyiron said:

    The last election was based on clearly defined manifesto of leaving the EU but totally reneged on by most of the elected MPs

    Sorry, I must have missed the bit where there was a deadline.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    Other things the Tories had in their manifesto but dropped: a free vote on fox hunting, the 'dementia tax', extending fracking, cutting winter fuel payment, cutting free school meals.

    Either these are equally dreadful betrayals, and worthy of as much outrage and criticism as the 'Brexit betrayal' ...

    or, they are further examples of how policies and promises made at one point in time are changed to reflect changing circumstances, experience, knowledge or political realities.
  • imagelostimagelost
    grey_til_I_dye said:

    Lots of athletics medals were won by athletes later found to have cheated.

    Their medals were taken away from them.

    I don't see how people can scream 'democracy' based on a vote that was riddled with misrepresentation and breachng of electoral law.

    Where is your proof,,,
  • VorselaarhammerVorselaarhammer
    Donald Tusk
    ‏
    Verified account

    @eucopresident
    5h5 hours ago
    More
    Appeal to EP: You should be open to a long extension, if the UK wishes to rethink its strategy. 6 million people signed the petition, 1 million marched. They may not feel sufficiently represented by UK Parliament but they must feel represented by you. Because they are Europeans.
  • Cuz1Cuz1
    Imo at the end of the day the majority voted to leave and I for one believe that should still be the case to go with the majority
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    I can see that argument Cuz, and no doubt there's plenty of support for it.

    From my point of view, now we can see what Brexit actually means and have a much clearer idea of what the consequences are, I would argue that 'will of the people' may have changed significantly enough to warrant another vote.

    And if the 'will of the people' remains the same, then fair enough, but I expect there are more people who have changed their minds from leave to remain since 2016 than the other way around.
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    OCS

    I feel exactly the same.

    If Leavers are convinced that their view is held by a majority, a 2nd referendum should hold no fears.

    If they are worried that a 2nd vote would not result in a majority for Leave, then they should probably stop suggesting it is the 'will of the people'.
  • Cuz1Cuz1
    Scare mongering tactics would suit any argument we should leave and then watch others follow, same happened with the banks the unions and everything else, we don’t need another vote we’ve already had one
  • Cuz1Cuz1
    I think if there were another vote it would be different because the leavers probably wouldn’t bother because they been there before and nothing happened I’d certainly never vote again on anything because my vote means so little
  • Cuz1Cuz1
    grey_til_I_dye said:

    aOCS

    I feel exactly the same.

    If Leavers are convinced that their view is held by a majority, a 2nd referendum should hold no fears.

    If they are worried that a 2nd vote would not result in a majority for Leave, then they should probably stop suggesting it is the 'will of the people'.

    And it was held by a majority that’s how they voted
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    edited March 2019
    "we don’t need another vote we’ve already had one"

    By that logic we should honour the 1975 referendum and remain.

    Problem solved :ok:
  • Cuz1Cuz1
    If that was voted by you Ocs and by a majority then crack on my friend
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    I would have more respect for a call for a second vote if 1: it wasn`t called "the peoples vote" and 2: you don`t win a game "one all" and 3: what if Leave wins?

    OCS. We don`t have a clearer view of what Brexit looks like, or its consequences. If we do ever leave then I think 10 to 15 years would give a reasonable indication of how we are performing. I would even support a vote to re-enter the EU if it came to it. I also think it fair, that if we do leave, then Scotland should be given another go at independence. If successful then Scotland could apply for membership of the EU. There seems strong support in Scotland for this, given SNP electoral success and their Brexit vote.

    I`m still hoping that MP`s revoke article 50, I think that would be most entertaining.
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    OldCastleSwift said:

    "we don’t need another vote we’ve already had one"

    By that logic we should honour the 1975 referendum and remain.

    Problem solved :ok:

    It`s a very different animal now though. It`s like walking into your local bank, (remember those) nodding off and waking up in a hipster bar.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    The last three years have felt like forty, so arguably it's not that different.

    The rhetoric of Brexit has changed so much in those three years that it feels a lot different to what was being mooted back in 2016.
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    And in reply to Donald Tusk, I would say that the Remainers are very well represented in the UK parliament.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35616946

    Thankyou for your concern.
  • ClactoniteClactonite
    I still can’t believe they didn’t call that ship Boaty Mcboatface even though it was the will of the people.

    I don’t know if that really has anything to do with this discussion but I’m still bitter about it :sub:
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    Clactonite maybe it wasn’t called Boaty because it was a ship.
  • ClactoniteClactonite
    Thorn, they named it Sir David Attenborough instead and I’m sure the ship more likely resembles a Boaty than a legendary wildlife presenter ;)
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    Latest from the houses of parliament. Indicative voting papers will be green, not pink, disappointing. And Bercow will not allow another meaningful vote on Mays deal. :lol:
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift

  • BarneyBarney
    I think Bercow has his own agenda
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    Barney

    Or, and this is just an idea, he has actually read the procedural rules, and has made a ruling based on them?
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    edited March 2019
    This doesn't look good for Labour.


    I don't think Labour will ever win a GE with JC as leader.
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    grey_til_I_dye said:

    Barney

    Or, and this is just an idea, he has actually read the procedural rules, and has made a ruling based on them?

    Apparently he has broken this same rule to allow something else today. Meh.

    Although I find this chaos quite refreshing. Revoke article 50. Stop Brexit.
  • BarneyBarney
    Grey - I assume he has but I am sure the rules say no second vote on the same item but he allowed that....
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