The 'Couldn't think where to put this' thread part 2 or 'does my comment merit a NEW THREAD?'
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Comments
After 82 minutes, the Blunts are leading 0-3, the game ends up a draw.
I wonder who they'll blame. ;lol
Some interesting points on future of football on tv. I was out with my mate who works as a sport journalist and he reckons Sky will be in trouble in a few years as their model for football isn't working anymore.
Madcap : that's what I thought, but she turned into a Pinscher, according to a German guest who seemed to know his dogs. Full of character, thought of calling her Noblette...
;ok
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06z6x5p
;lol
Well articulated, and I agree ;clap
There are probably lots of teams you can get tickets on general sale for.
What they do at the moment is sufficient, life bans from football & hand over evidence to the police for possible criminal charges
And the need to continue education on this sort of thing at school level and beyond
The few cases we have read about just recently (Salah, the banana skin one, Sterling) are just the tip of the iceberg: look at those quoted figures for people who say they see/hear incidents like this all the time. Very few of them get reported (I mean by ordinary folks, reported to the stewards or police) so nothing gets done about them.
The punishment of this tiny minority is having no effect on the much bigger minority who just carry on as before.
I think it's clear that existing strategies are useless. The stakes have to be raised.
But even if it that scenario does happen, as long as there's a thorough investigation to identify the offender and his background, it will quickly become apparent that he's not a 'real' fan. And the punishments can be meted out appropriately.
I don't think your hypothetical scenario is sufficient to block implementing additional measures.
I totally agree additional measures are needed but unless it came with assurances that there would be proper investigations before deductions, i wouldn't trust it.
There's been plenty of education in this country about the holocaust. You still get groups of supporters hissing when we play Tottenham.
I completely understand the message Antonio is trying to get across (we need to get radical & impose the strongest possible punishment), but to deduct points from a club due to a number of people who hold an attitude that will simply not change overnight is a pointless act, because their attitudes won't change as a result & therefore it won't stop. You can say that the threat of punishments like these may result in others around them turning on them but, again, that is also not what we need because it could result in ground violence, which is another matter entirely.
So what can be done, realistically? I completely agree with CCTV & pinpointing those responsible. They then need to be banned from any sporting event (football grounds at a minimum) for life. Then there needs to be an avenue to begin criminal proceedings against them which has to involve some sort of rehabilitation/educational programme. I would argue that even those programmes can have limited effects if it is an intrinsic, almost animalistic instinct to behave in that way; you could argue a psychiatrist is a better route to go down for all of them. Is that realistic?
There possibly needs to be greater education & emphasis on a 'whistleblowing' culture in the stadium, where it is acceptable to privately inform the stewards/police of potential criminal acts. One massive issue with this is that there is very much a tribal atmosphere in football which results in people who 'grass' (as they like to put it) being frowned upon. Again, this could lead to a scenario above where violence becomes an issue.
This is beyond a crime & punishment issue, because it transcends football. It is not an issue only in a 30,000 seater stadium, but in society. The sort of person who hurls that sort of abuse has grown up into that sort of person who turns to those instincts, possibly in an emotional scenario, such as football.
And to add, how bad has it got where we are talking about a "your club will lose points if you shout racist abuse" punishment in order to get people to refrain from hurling that disgusting abuse?
It is a massive problem & more does need to be done; but the fact we are still having these issues in 2019 says to me that implementing the right thing is proving very difficult for those in authority.
I don't think that radical actions following incidents at football grounds will change how those people think, but it might change how they behave, and it will certainly change the attitude of those in the crowd around them.
The incident at our club came to light because a fan recorded it, and made it public. Perhaps if more people in the crowd took exception to racist abuse, and stewards acted promptly, that might help.
I fully understand Antonio's position: whatever the authorities have done so far, it isn't enough, as it hasn't stopped racist abuse from appearing at football grounds, so maybe something more radical is needed.
Sections of football crowds seem to feel they are not bound by the norms of ordinary social behaviour.
Here's a bloke doing his job:
What other occupations would people feel it was OK to lob a beer bottle, and then a bottle of water at the person doing it? In most other circumstances you could expect to be arrested for assault.
The bile and abuse he was subjected to from fans in that corner was shameful, but they all seemed to think they had a perfect right to behave like that.
Which is why people have suggested that you would require further and careful investigation of such individuals, and that bans would be for all football games/stadiums.
I think it is a clever thing that Antonio has done.
He's suggested what could be done; if people don't think that is a good idea, then I'm sure he'd be interested in what else they would suggest, outside of what currently isn't working.