Watford vs West Ham United - 19.11.17 - Match Thread

IronHerb

MrsGrey said:

He got kicked 3 or 4 times (probably accidentally, but still) shortly before his Yellow Card. He stayed on his feet and kept the ball.... ref gave nothing.

Spot on Mrs G. He was, imo, doubly frustrated by the buffeting he took and the fact no West Ham player got anywhere near him whilst he struggled to hold on to the ball.

grey_til_I_dye

I honestly didn't think it was even a foul. The Watford player ran across him, imo.

IronHerb

I haven't seen it on the box only from 100 yards away, so I'm probably right. ;lol

Lukerz

I see old Antonio has liked a tweet tonight which read ‘what a shambles’ (Daily Star), showing the back page and Moyes with his head in his hands, with the subheading saying ‘Moyes fury as flops mess up his return’.

;doh

MrsGrey

Real twitter account?

How do we know what he has liked (genuine question, because I'm looking at his twitter page right now and not sure how to see that.)

I have clicked on the 'likes' tab, but don't see any like for the DS.

chicagohammer

MrsGrey said:

Reminds me of Carlton ... regularly penalised for JWB.

;ccole

Maybe I am having a senior moment, but what is JWB?

Cuz1

chicagohammer said:

MrsGrey said:

Reminds me of Carlton ... regularly penalised for JWB.

;ccole

Maybe I am having a senior moment, but what is JWB?

Glad you asked I must be as well

Adam

Johnnie Walker Blue?

chicagohammer

As for Arnie, I am sure that he was in,pain, but even so I thought his reactions were pointing to something far more serious, I actually thought he may have broken his wrist or something.

I was trying to see what caused it and as far as I could tell, he had hold of the guys shirt and it looked like his wrist may have been dislocated when the player twisted away, it looked quite nasty.

The medics were surrounding him and I was expecting them to put on an arm splint or something, I was genuinely concerned for him.

I was quite surprised when they said the injury was to his thumb.

As per the previous post, I actually thought he was having his best game for us and I was sorry to see him go.

grey_til_I_dye

JWB - jumping while black (on the model of DWB - driving while black)

alderz

Chicago ;ok

The way he was acting I said to my brother I thought he'd gone down awkwardly on his wrist and broken it, but then on the reply he got his thumb stood on it looked like. Not saying it doesn't hurt, because it does. But also, there was that interview before where they asked him what sort of player he was and he described himself as the 'hard man'. So idk

SuzanneClaret

On the TV it looked like he'd dislocated his wrist. He looked in a lot of pain.

I don't know why a player expressing pain is a problem or a point of ridicule.

I've dislocated my finger and my thumb on separate occasions - I was screaming my head off.

IronHerb

I just wonder what Billy Bonds thought of that. If that was Billy he would have gone down on one knee, the trainer would have run on with his bucket and sponge, treated the injury with said sponge, possibly taped the thumb to his hand to keep it stationary (optional) and Billy would have dived into the next available tackle.

Don't make 'em like they used to.

MrsGrey

Remember when AC dislocated his finger in a match, ran over to the sideline, physio put it back and he carried on playing. You can google pictures .. I don't want to, it makes me queasy.

(The picture does. Not googling ;whome )

SuzanneClaret

IronHerb said:

I just wonder what Billy Bonds thought of that. If that was Billy he would have gone down on one knee, the trainer would have run on with his bucket and sponge, treated the injury with said sponge, possibly taped the thumb to his hand to keep it stationary (optional) and Billy would have dived into the next available tackle.

Don't make 'em like they used to.

He was one of a kind

Cuz1

Probably put his boots on now and would give more than some of our lot

alderz

Suz

It's not a point of ridicule, it's just that his reaction seemed, given everything he projects as an image, to mean that it was going to be far more serious than it was. I'm pleased it was only his thumb, as he was playing well, I thought

brookingsirons

Swiss cheese keeper joe hart needs dropping imo as does zabaleta .

SuzanneClaret

;ok Ald

Hammerex

I agree Brookings, time to give Adrian a chance.

SuzanneClaret

I don't think there is much between either 'keeper. Both can make some great saves and both can mess up.

It's just I think Adrian has a bit of a cult following and It's felt Hart was dropped on us but was not what we needed.

alderz

I have felt all season that Hart is better than Adrian, but the second goal against Watford was extremely concerning. I read regularly that he is weak low and to his left, and that was the issue there. After that goal, I think I would like a change, tbh.

puddleglumhammers

The worst aspect of Moyes was his use of subs. 2-0 down so replace a striker with a striker - negative. Then replace winger/forward with a left back (why not try Quina?) - negative. Don't use your 3rd sub - CRIMINAL. Put Martinez on for 10/15 minutes with Noble or Kouyate or Obiang going off. So what if we lose 3 or 4 nil.

welovethehammers

puddleglumhammers said:

The worst aspect of Moyes was his use of subs. 2-0 down so replace a striker with a striker - negative. Then replace winger/forward with a left back (why not try Quina?) - negative. Don't use your 3rd sub - CRIMINAL. Put Martinez on for 10/15 minutes with Noble or Kouyate or Obiang going off. So what if we lose 3 or 4 nil.

I disagree.

Carroll needed to get subbed as he would've got sent off. Moyes was simply being proactive. Plus Carroll was having no joy and the game didn't seem to suit his style of play.

Masuaku was playing as a left winger not as a left back. And he is perfectly capable of playing there - in fact he's better there than as a defender. So it was a good move choosing him to replace the injured Arnie.

Our bench was pretty weak. Based on how the game was going (being overan in midfield and being pinned back near our goal) Taking off defensive players for attacking players would be suicidal. Having said all that, for or me we should've brought Rice on for one of our CM's. They were running round a lot and before their 2nd goal those three midfielders ran everywhere but never intercepted the ball or made a tackle. We needed fresh legs Yes, but changing our shape would've been wrong.

puddleglumhammers

Carroll should have been subbed after 20 minutes (or even 20 seconds) if you were worried he might get a red, not 65 minutes.
And proactive is putting on 2 strikers, not subbing one for another. Especially when trailing 2-0 !
I know Masuaku has put in good crosses before when played on the wing but Quina might have ran with the ball and threatened defenders a bit, as Richarlison did for them.

grey_til_I_dye

Sorry, puddleglum, but I thought Arthur was our best player when he came on, and did exactly what you thought Quina might have done, which is to say ran at (and past) defenders, and threatened them, and put crosses in.

Who would you have taken off to get our 2nd striker on?

Could only really have been one of the 3 MFs to my mind, and that would simply have left us more vulnerable.

Cuz1

More vulnerable than we were before it was the shape we needed to change another striker making it two up top might have got us that, hindsight a wonderful thing but we were behind and risks would have to be taken to get back into the game imo

MrsGrey

In Feb 2015, Sam Allardyce took Mark Noble off in the 2nd half because he felt Nobes (already on a yellow) was 1 mistimed tackle away from being sent off.



We had a lively debate on here as to whether or not the player should be 'protected' from himself (or an inconsistent referee) or should be trusted to get a grip and do his job.

He (Sam) got pelters for it. Now Moyes is being criticised for doing the opposite. ;hmm

TheMadcapLaughs

grey_til_I_dye said:

JWB - jumping while black (on the model of DWB - driving while black)

All clear to me now................. ;puzzled

grey_til_I_dye

Seemed that every time ;ccole went up for a ball, got pinged for a foul. After a while, we came up with the idea he was being penalised for JWB.