Palace (A) can we clip the Eagles wings or will we fade & die (Match Thread 28.10.17)

tomkinsworldclass

In retrospect you can criticise players going forward to try and score, but we had a significant numerical advantage on the break and a clear chance to wrap it up 3-1 in a similarish way to a few seasons back when Payet scored to make it 3-1. For me, it lies entirely with Antonio; either take it to the corner or drive into the box and pick out a west ham man or possibly get a pen off a tired Palace challenge or win a corner or something....anything....just not what he did do!........... instead, a lazy chipped nothing cross straight into the hands of Speroni. Incredible.

Following on from the Brighton match it might come across as though I'm singling Antonio out specifically but its basic things which a pro footballer at any level should do and I honestly dont know why he has atrophied so much this season (performance-wise) but they are costing us big time and the manager keeps gets all the blame. The Header which Hart tipped onto the bar late on at 2-1 was directly from Antonio not being switched on and getting caught under the ball again a la Brighton. Antonio is an important player for us but if he continues to show a lack of aptitude then he should be left out until he starts engaging and being switched on. Nobles reaction after the whistle tells you everything you need to know about what he thought of the situation.

Its painful because it is all self inflicted from a position of such strength but as soon as Ogbonna gave away that moronic penalty 5 mins into the second half, the players lost their way. We needed to be professional, to keep it tight, let them get frustrated and see it off on the counter attack to make it 3 or 4 nil but we didnt. Even though CPFC were dominating we still had great opportunities on the counter but poor decision making cost us again; I can recall fernandes playing it through to chicharito too late and Mensah getting back to cover, likewise us developing an overload on the let hand side but ayew deciding to play it back instead. Now its an important week going into the Liverpool match and the lads have to deliver a performance.

thornburyiron

After every poor game which to be fair is pretty well all of them, at least one player says we will learn from our mistakes before the next game, this week it's Ayew BUT they never do or if they do they invent a different one.

IronHerb

I've noticed that too but it's all PR/Media in an attempt to placate the fans.
Perhaps this week Antonio will tell us how his new goal celebration is going. ;biggrin

welovethehammers

We had 2 shots against Palace and scored 2 goals. If we had more efforts on goal I'm sure we would've been out of sight. A lot of it is a stats game - the more shots, the more goals is often the way. The reason Palace got back into it is because they had 45 minutes of attacking and we defended for 45 minutes.

SuzanneClaret

The reason Palace got back into the game was that we gave them two goals. Had the game gone on for another 15 mins I have no doubt we would have given them a third.

Dodger58

The "West Ham Way"

imagelost

It’s not the West Ham way just give up, ie walk about not track back so on

Lukerz

Funny because what Antonio tried to do I have absolutely no problem with. I don’t think anybody should be ripped apart for showing ambition. He had the chance to pick out any one of 3 West Ham players and the game would’ve been over with potentially a nice tint on the final score. Ayew, Hernandez or whoever would’ve either smashed it into the net or into the stands. The whistle would’ve gone.

What was unforgivable was the complete lack of technical skill to execute what was an easy cross and the body language as he did it. Almost like ‘I don’t care what happens to this ball’ type attitude. Once he made the decision to not go to the corner, he has to find a player. As it was the man he was meant to be defending against was now free on the edge of our box. I know the rest of the team could've done more but the fact was they were all pretty fatigued after 45 mins of constant defending. That showed in the way we defended the goal. All Kouyate had to do was usher Zaha onto his left foot and he wouldn’t have cut inside and shot. But, probably due to mental fatigue, he didn’t do that and Zaha’s feet were quicker than his.

I still think Hart was very slow to react given the game he had but appreciate it was not his fault the ball went in.

But like others have said, the bigger question is how did a fully strength team (other than Reid), including 3 of our signings in the 11, manage to get dominated by the leagues bottom side? The season hasn’t been completely dreadful. We had a very good second half v Saints, were ok against Huddersfield, good second half at Spurs, ok at Burnley and WBA, good in the first 2 cup games, ok against Spurs in the league second half, but then absolutely awful at Man Utd, Newcastle and against Brighton. What we showed against Palace was something we don’t often show, ruthlessness and individual brilliance to put us in the driving seat. We would’ve come away, had it not been for two poor pieces of execution, with a 0-2 win from almost 0 chances created. A good week after Brighton and approaching Liverpool in good spirits.

We show signs of being on the verge of being an ok side, then shoot ourselves in the foot. Only earlier this year (Feb) we were 9th in the league. So after his first 18 months in charge, Slav had us 7th and then sitting 9th. But the rest of the year has been pretty substandard.

So frustrating. Especially when we all want Bilic to succeed. I think he would succeed under different circumstances, but with the owners we have I don’t see how we can go on much longer playing as we have in the last two league games.

MrsGrey

Joe Hart made Crooks' team of the week.

IronHerb

That's not necessarily a good indicator Mrs G, ;whistle ,although he did play a blinder imo.

TwistandShout

Lukerz said:

Funny because what Antonio tried to do I have absolutely no problem with. I don’t think anybody should be ripped apart for showing ambition. He had the chance to pick out any one of 3 West Ham players and the game would’ve been over with potentially a nice tint on the final score. Ayew, Hernandez or whoever would’ve either smashed it into the net or into the stands. The whistle would’ve gone.

f

But Lukerz... You don't get more points for winning 3-1 than you do 2-1.
It was brainless. I would be going mad if i was in that team. He's literally cost us the game. Just keep it in the corner and we win.

NEoldiron

Lukerz said:
"What was unforgivable was the complete lack of technical skill to execute what was an easy cross and the body language as he did it. Almost like ‘I don’t care what happens to this ball’ type attitude." ;ok

Also look at his expression when Slav puts him on and he seems to ignore Zab as they cross. He needs to understand it's about the team - no room for prima donnas. ;angry

sweepy23

What about when Antonio lost the ball a few minutes earlier in the corner. He made zero effort to keep it or turn his body to guard the ball. He pretty much passed it to them. Twice in a few minutes!

Kuchinghammer

Enough said about our new scapegoat Antonio... I would like to point a finger at Masuaku, who gave away a foul in a dangerous area roughly every 7 minutes, or 90% of the time he had to make a tackle (I love statistics) Under this kind of pressure, even top defenders would get edgy; ours became terrified. So two of Slav's substitutions didn't work. But against Swansea (I think), his odd subs of Ayew & Masuaku won us the game. Gee, it's really hard to be fair when you blame someone, but I DO feel like dishing out the blame! Maybe blame the ball...

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

I've just seen the second goal. I'm usually one of Antonio's staunchest defenders, but wow, that was ridiculous. Double awful in my view, one not to take it into the corner, and two to play a pass so absolutely dreadful and lacklustre.

After that, to allow them to get the ball all the way to ten yards away from our own goal, was across the board pathetic.

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

While Antonio made a glaring mistake, one that you wouldn’t expect from an experienced professional, I really don’t know where people get this “lack of effort” or “ego” thing from? The last 2 seasons he’s been one of our standout players that has bust a gut week in week out.

Is he technically gifted? No.....is he a bit of a bull in a china shop? Yes.

The guy has pulled us out the mire in many games and scored some important goals.

I do have to chuckle as well, back in the SA days had he put on 2 defenders and had a player trying to run down the clock, to defend a slender lead, he’d probably of got boo’d, and the banner would’ve come out “big fat Sam, killing WHU” as talk of the West Ham way came trotting out.

If I’ve got to look at areas to complain or criticize on saturday (as well as Antonio’s error) it was the unfortunate subs, even allowing for the fact we couldn’t bring on an AC outlet (see what I did there?) how the heck did we get dominated so much by that Crystal Palace side.

Also Angelo Ogbonna is probably as much to blame, was he in the toilet when Bilic said “keep it tight first 15”

Joe Hart? Blameless on all counts and clearly man of the match

Stop shooting ourselves in the foot and we will be fine

Hamstew

I like Antonio. One of my favorite players.

MrsGrey

Izzy, ;ok This 'lack of effort' and 'ego/sulk' idea seems to have come out of nowhere. But is gaining traction, it seems. Like you, I've not seen anything that makes me believe it has any foundation.

Edit: Oh, wait, I just remembered that it was an allegation last season that he sulked and didn't try hard enough because he was being asked to play at the back...

So he's got form.

;wink

Hammerex

Hamstew , He was my favorite Hammer until this year, don't think he is
interested now, think he wants to leave. Playing like that, the sooner the
better. Havn't seen him have a good game this season.

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Not interested?

Think he wants to leave?

The sooner the better?

#NoWords

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

I don’t think Antonio is lazy or disinterested and he’s been our best attacking player since Payet left, and top scorer.

I think his cross the other day was lazy and stupid in equal measure.

sweepy23

Whenever he’s been asked to do a job he’s sulked and given goals away. IMO

alderz

Every single time a player has a bad game I see fans saying that player needs sacking or selling. Not just with West Ham but generally.

TwistandShout

Jorderz_Slaven_A_Good_Time said:

I don’t think Antonio is lazy or disinterested and he’s been our best attacking player since Payet left, and top scorer.

I think his cross the other day was lazy and stupid in equal measure.

He was lazy and disinterested against Brighton (i know everyone else was too...)
At times he lost the ball and just stood still.
I've noticed an attitude change in him. I hope he gets back to the Antonio of old

welovethehammers

I have to agree that since Antonio has joined West Ham he's worked very hard for us. Having said that, against Palace from the minute he came on he had a disgruntled look on his face and his body language was all wrong. I have no idea what's gone on behind the scenes but he looked disinterested and that was shown in his performance. He's not normally like that however on Saturday you could tell something was up. He was emotionless and clearly didn't care. I noticed he gave off a negative vibe against Brighton too. Although it was a "different" negative vibe - against Brighton he seemed frustrated and was showing how frustrated he was, while at Palace he looked glum and almost emotionless. Reading into this I'm making the assumption that he was originally frustrated and now past the point of frustration and genuinely fed up of the situation. However could be off with this assumption obviously (in fact it's fairly likely!)

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

TwistandShout_I_love_Allardyce said:

Jorderz_Slaven_A_Good_Time said:

I don’t think Antonio is lazy or disinterested and he’s been our best attacking player since Payet left, and top scorer.

I think his cross the other day was lazy and stupid in equal measure.

He was lazy and disinterested against Brighton (i know everyone else was too...)
At times he lost the ball and just stood still.
I've noticed an attitude change in him. I hope he gets back to the Antonio of old

IMO his levels dropped sharply after he spent a few minutes down on the touchline. I don’t know if he was carrying something or was worried about having another lay-off, but to me he seemed a different player after he took a knock.

NEoldiron

How many more sulky players do we have to suffer? ;angry
Is there a sulk epidemic at West Ham? If so, what's causing it? ;hmm

MrsGrey

welovethehammers said:

, against Palace from the minute he came on he had a disgruntled look on his face... he looked disinterested...He was emotionless and clearly didn't care.... Reading into this I'm making the assumption that he was originally frustrated and now past the point of frustration and genuinely fed up of the situation. However could be off with this assumption obviously (in fact it's fairly likely!)

;hmm ;biggrin

So was he emotionless?

Or feeling the emotions of
- glumness
- disgruntlement

And if he IS fed up .. how do you know what he's fed up with? Maybe he's disgruntled at his aching ribs. Or his mistakes. Or he had a row with his missus. Or somebody keyed his car when it was parked outside the care-home when he was visiting his nan...

jay_in_cpt

Tbh all I saw from Antonio was a foolish decision that cost us...
I no way agree with lots of comments above re attitude etc etc, IMO way OTT ....
While he freaked me out with his decision I wouldn't bash him any more than just that , a error that he surely also regrets ..

MrsGrey

NEoldiron said:

Is there a sulk epidemic at West Ham?

No.









You're welcome.