Palace (A) can we clip the Eagles wings or will we fade & die (Match Thread 28.10.17)

chicagohammer

I think that our second half was probably the most nervous and fearful half I have seen for some time, I just do not understand why, we were not really struggling in the first half, it was a scrappy affair of which neither team dominated, but we led after a couple of quality moments.

I just do not understand where that second half came from, once again our man of the match should go to the Post, if we would have held on to the points, I would have happily taken them, but make no mistake it would have been a robbery.

We failed to pass on one another, we had no purpose to our play, on so many occasions the ball was just flung forward with no regard whatsoever and we just hoped that it would find one of our own.

I’ll take the point but I do not feel good about it

Ho hum

thornburyiron

I think we've now become the most boring team to watch in the PL. There's nothing to excite in any of our play and today we had only 2 shots on target which luckily for us went in. If it hadn't been for Hart we could easily have lost that game 5 or 6-2.
Trying to hold onto a lead for 40+ minutes is hard enough when you are defending for your lives is one thing but all we do is trot casual lay back towards our goal until they get to our area and then the usual happens, we give away a penalty or a free kick just outside.
Slav is obviously a decent bloke but it's almost as if he's an imposter as a qualified coach unless his certificate came from a Croatian correspondence course.

grey_til_I_dye

thorn

I should have a gander at WBA then.

If you weren't excited by our two goals, you probably need a refresher course.

grey_til_I_dye

thorn

You constantly denigrate Slav's tactical/coaching skills.

What happened 2nd half against Spurs? Did our players simply ignore him, and do what they felt like?

If so, why didn't they do the same against Palace?

And if that were the case, the players would be just as much at fault, as they knew what to do but didn't do it.

KingHammerAbroad

Grey,
I don't think Thorn is saying that the players aren't partly at fault for the position we are in, but Bilic is ultimately responsible for our performances.

There have been too many games where we have showed very little in terms of grit and determination, no apparent plan b if his original plan isn't working. He often just looks lost on the sidelines.

I am usually in the give a manager more time camp (apart from Grant) but for me he has out stayed his welcome, we need a change and need it sooner rather than later.

baracks_a_hammer

Grey

Yes but if the players are consistently at fault and it’s been well over a season of largely forgettable displays it is either

- the tactics are spot on and the players aren’t following them
- the tactics themselves are not up to the mark

In either scenario it still falls down to the manager IMO. If it is scenario one, then Slav is not an effective manager and should not be managing in the premier league.

grey_til_I_dye

baracks

Of course, the manager has to take responsibility.

I was merely suggesting that thorn's dismissal of Slav's abilities was OTT, imo.

MrsGrey

baracks_a_hammer said:

Grey

Yes but if the players are consistently at fault and it’s been well over a season of largely forgettable displays it is either

- the tactics are spot on and the players aren’t following them
- the tactics themselves are not up to the mark

That's it? That's the only options? No other factors can impact on the performance?

Hamstew

I'm taking my boy to watch an England friendly instead a west ham game. Thats how boring we are.

grey_til_I_dye

West Ham - best fans in the world

Unless we don't play well, and then all bets are off.

(That's not a dig at you, Ham, btw, just a dismissal of the ludicrous pretensions of some of our fans. We are no different to other sets of fans. Each time we have been relegated recently, we have lost 5 - 10 000 off the gate.)

billybondsbeard

I don't think that Slav is the worst manager in the Prem. by any stretch of the imagination - I just think that every manager in this league has a life span ( as ephemeral as that sounds ). Exceptions to the rule are Fergie and Wenger of course - but even Wenger faces annual pressure - with much more at stake with a club with the traditions of Arsenal.
Its either cowardice or calculation on the part of the Twins not to put Slav out of his misery.
The only thing I can think of is how expensive it will be to prise another decent manager away from his current club. Unfortunately for the Daves, the cost of doing that tends to have to be paid in one lump, which would give Sully cold sweats at night.
Slavs time with us has run its course I feel, and he seems to be resigned to his fate.
Its a sad state of affairs.

MarkNobleLocalHero

The major factor that might cause the consistently poor performances we have been getting for almost two years is IMO the manager. The key word here is consistently. The players change from game to game and season to season the consistent factor in this problem, and it is a problem IMO, is the manager. Any other candidates?
Anyone is, of course, free to argue that the performances haven't been consistently poor by throwing in some very very rare performances as counter-examples but that doesn't work for the majority of supporters that know what they have been seeing these past seasons and don't want to see anymore of it.

IronHerb

But Grey,

Who says the best fans cant complain?

grey_til_I_dye

NWC

You are entitled to your opinion, but I don't see how you are entitled to speak for 'the majority of supporters'.

Herb

I don't buy 'best fans' for any team.

Fans are free to moan/complain/whinge/rant/protest/stop going/giving a monkey's or whatever else they feel like.

Having done that, I don't think they are also entitled to smugly congratulate themselves for how wonderful they are.

IronHerb

Where's does smugness come into it?

MarkNobleLocalHero

Grey, I haven't taken a poll to discover what the precise level of disillusionment is but I do go to the London Stadium every other week and I can report that there is no-one around me (East Stand Upper) who is happy with what they have been watching for a long time now.
Time for a poll on here perhaps, Bilic to stay or go?

grey_til_I_dye

ironHerb

Not sure what you mean?

Put simply, I don't think there is anything about our fan set, those who go regularly, or those who support from afar, that marks us out as any different to any other group of fans.

Our behaviour in adversity is no better than many fans, and worse than some, imo.

So what is it that makes our fans 'the best' over any other team's?

I know, for example, that you spend a lot of time and money going home and away, and there is no doubt that marks you out as a loyal supporter.

But I know an Ipswich fan who has been doing the same for years, and every club, including many far less successful (for a given value of success...) than us has fans like that.

imagelost

NobleWorldClass said:

Grey, I haven't taken a poll to discover what the precise level of disillusionment is but I do go to the London Stadium every other week and I can report that there is no-one around me (East Stand Upper) who is happy with what they have been watching for a long time now.
Time for a poll on here perhaps, Bilic to stay or go?

I said, maybe we should have vote , on slav Billic thread

Hamstew

Tgats fine grey ;ok it's more as I'm taking my boy and I don't want to turn him off west ham completely. If I was in my own I'd bet at west Ham regardless

grey_til_I_dye

Ham

I know what you mean. ;ok

That said, the first game I took my boy to was a terrible 0-0 draw, and he turned to me at the end of the game and said

'That was brilliant! Can we come again next week?'

imagelost

Grey Ham
My brother took me to Upton Park in 72/73 season Leicester city, I ask to go again Coventry was next
I come out very confused boy,,,, and been the seam since
;weep ;puzzled ;angel ;pray coyi

IronHerb

Grey,

But all fan sets believe they are the 'best' so why should we be different?

grey_til_I_dye

Herb

People can claim it all they like.

I'm just saying I think it is tosh.

SuzanneClaret

I will go to all the home games regardless of what is happening on the pitch or behind closed doors. It's the only thing I do that constantly and without fail plays with all of my emotions.

My old job gave me no satisfaction so I got a new one. My first marriage died, so I left.

I will always go to watch West Ham and that in itself makes me angry. It has no logic. It makes me feel like a fool. I feel like a needy teenager who keeps looking at that lad in the hope he might eventually smile at me. Because every so often he does.

For the last season and a half his smiles have been very thin on the ground though.

So I'm going to complain about it and ask if I wouldn't be better of with someone else in charge. Because I can't for the life on me understand why we are so bad. Why we gave yesterday's game away with the quality of players we have. Yesterday's game in the norm not the exception...

The players very much shoulder some of the blame but ultimately the buck stops with the manager.

Hamstew

Omg I've just seen the palace goal. Antonio could have just turned back and walked to the corner flag. What a numpty.

OldCastleSwift

I will always go to watch West Ham and that in itself makes me angry. It has no logic. It makes me feel like a fool. I feel like a needy teenager who keeps looking at that lad in the hope he might eventually smile at me. Because every so often he does.

Love this ;clap

SuzanneClaret

Are you watching goals on Sunday Ham?

The rest of the team don't exactly make an effort to defend though.

grey_til_I_dye

Suze ;ok

Just to clarify, I'm not for a moment saying

a) our fans shouldn't complain

b) that we have nothing to complain about

Ham

Or got the ball to any of the three of our players waiting for it...

Hamstew

SuzanneClaret said:

Are you watching goals on Sunday Ham?

The rest of the team don't exactly make an effort to defend though.

Just saw it on Twitter. Agree our players didn't seem to be busting a gut to get it back. But Antonio could have just turned back and shielded it. Even smashed it for a throw in. Anything but what he did.

OldCastleSwift

It's because we care so much that it hurts so much. I'd love not to care. I'd love to not let West Ham ruin my weekends.

But I do. And they do. Consistently.