Brexit: the next stage. Deal or No Deal? (and the General Election)

Vorselaarhammer

Btw the arrogance of May not showing up, the British people being what we are.

We don't like over confidence, I am hoping it will bite her on the behind...

ammerinaberdeen

Sorry as ex forces there is no way I would accept Corbyn as Prime Minister

claretandbluesky

I think they are the middle ground but they repel brexiters and so will find it hard to win but could provide a few surprises. Watch the Maidenhead vote come in on the night, may be closer than many think.

I was too young to vote or even really understand politics when Maggie came around but I think I now know how so many felt repulsed by her, and May is only Maggie light.

billybondsbeard

Unfortunately it's a waste of a vote nationally Vorse although I think that they will do well in certain areas of the country.
Come to Labour

We have Jaffa Cakes ;ok

MrsGrey

ammerin


Even though he has been clear that under a Labour government troops they would only be sent into combat abroad if
- they were properly resourced
- there was a clear need for military intervention and
- there was a plan for lasting peace afterwards.


Which hasn't been the case under past Tory OR Nu-Labour governments?

Vorselaarhammer

BBB I was labour but the Iraq war and then Brown and the subsequent internal warfair turns me against them...

billybondsbeard

Jaffa Cakes though ............

MrsGrey

BBB I hate Jaffa cakes ;lol

Always voting Labour though. You can have mine ;ok

MrsGrey

Vorselaarhammer said:

BBB I was labour but the Iraq war and then Brown and the subsequent internal warfair turns me against them...

They had nothing to do with socialism and 'real' Labour values. They were 'new' labour, ie Tory light.

Come back to the dark red side.

Vorselaarhammer

Unfortunately I think internal warfair is the red side, you can't make change if you don't win....

ASLEFshrugged

billybondsbeard said:

Unfortunately it's a waste of a vote nationally Vorse although I think that they will do well in certain areas of the country.
Come to Labour

We have Jaffa Cakes ;ok

We don't vote nationally, we vote in whichever constituency we happen to be registered in.

I live in Leyton and Wanstead where Labour have a 15000 majority with the Tories in second. I'll be voting Labour as I've done in every election since 1979

My best mate lives in Colchester which the Lib Dems lost to the Tories last time, Labour have been a distant third in every election since 1997. He supports Labour but will vote Lib Dem because they have a realistic chance of beating the Tories. In his case a vote for Labour could help the Tories.

Laurasupababe

billybondsbeard said:

I love your optimism Laura and I share it.
It's been a real rollercoaster ride for the last few weeks. I'm just really pleased that the media tactics are starting to be seen for what they really are and people are now starting to debate policy.
Nevertheless, I'm a realist- the most I am hoping for is a hung parliament, but it is good for my political soul to get a positive response to our policies rather than concentrating on personalities.its great to see the 'Strong and Stable ' approach blow up in May's face. I wouldn't trust that lot to negotiate on our behalf in a million years.
Two more days of door knocking to go, then I'm going to become a spectator like everyone else ;cider

BBB,
My optimism is based on what I see. Labour's campaign has momentum, Corbyn as the campaign has gone on is looking more assured and relaxed, which I think comes from the positivity from the voters he's met, he's enjoying every minute. The Tories on the other hand look like they are staring defeat in the face, which in effect they are, about to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. They have run a very poor campaign from the start with May looking uncomfortable at every appearance, she looks lacking in confidence and belief. That is why I believe we will have a Labour Government on Friday.

ASLEFshrugged

LSB - I think its more likely the Tories will be the largest party but will not have enough seats to form a government with the most likely outcome being a coalition of Labour, Lib Dems and Scot Nats.

Laurasupababe

ASLEF,
Either way it will be a great achievement by Corbyn who has been demonised by the right wing media since he was elected leader (and before that) so I think to bring Labour up to the levels shown in the polls is a great achievement from being consistently written off and who knows he could just win it outright as I think he will.

billybondsbeard

The key thing is to get out the youth vote. Traditionally only around 44% of people of voting age under 25 bother to turn out, while over 80 % of those over 65 do. Although with the Dementia tax looming, and with the tories still not giving a figure on the 'cap' before next week, some more of those over 65's may well be voting Labour.
Good debate last night - Jeremy struggled on the nuclear button question - but that is a non question in my opinion. He would have to be alive after a likely first strike to push the button anyway, as we would not use trident as a first strike weapon.
I'm not starting that argument on here !! ;scarf

ASLEFshrugged

LSB - agree 100%, from being something like 20% behind in the polls to within 5% is a phenomenal achievement with so much against him although May has been utterly useless so far.

Laurasupababe

Agreed.
What has surprised me was the high number who have registered to vote by the 22nd May deadline. Assuming a large number of those are young I think the chances are this will benefit Labour the most. I just get the feeling from news reports (regardless of what they are saying, and I note Daily Mail are giving Corbyn a tough time today over the nuclear stuff) that Labour are on the up in this campaign at just the right time and will do it, remember they said Trump would never this, that, the other and look what happened there...President Trump when everyone and his wife said it was nailed on Hilary Clinton so the seemingly impossible can and does happen.

claretandbluesky

ASLEFshrugged said:

LSB - I think its more likely the Tories will be the largest party but will not have enough seats to form a government with the most likely outcome being a coalition of Labour, Lib Dems and Scot Nats.

I would snap your hand off for that Aslef.

The other issue if the tories win is that without doubt in my mind May has been exposed and her own party will get rid of her and so I wonder who will end up as leader should she resign through some made up health issue (get pushed out).

Have never wanted a party to be removed from power as much as I do now, May represents everything I cannot abide, only Boris would I dislike more.

SuzanneClaret

;ok claret

I hope the Tory's don't win but I very much fear that they will.

Laurasupababe

SuzanneClaret said:

;ok claret

I hope the Tory's don't win but I very much fear that they will.

Suzanne,

I don't think that will be the case at all. May & the Tories have fought a poor campaign, perhaps based on an arrogance due to their supposed huge lead in the opinion polls. Corbyn & Labour have fought a campaign (as under dogs with nothing to lose) they have gone out, met the public and got their message across which has been well received by the public and has shown in the narrowing of the opinion polls. I believe in the final few days the gap will narrow still further and Labour will take a decisive lead. Far from Labour being in disarray as the media would have us believe, it is the Tories who are in disarray and May herself is finished, exposed over the last few months as weak and clueless, unfit neither to lead her party or be Prime Minister and frankly good riddance to her.

MrsGrey

Laura, I'd love it, but I think the Tories are starting from such an advantage, plus I thnk when push comes to shove a large number of Tory doubters will play safe.

claretandbluesky

I made (not physically, there were no ties or cuffs involved) a friend watch question time last night as she had been telling me she was voting Tory and couldn't trust Corbyn. I knew she had never read or watched anything and was basing it upon carefully encouraged public perceptions managed by the right wing press headlines. She agreed to watch it with me and at the end remarked that on no account could she vote Tory when represented by Theresa May and that Corbyn although not entirely her cup of tea (her words) came across more than anything else as trustworthy and genuine. We might not win on Thursday but I can tell you even that small victory felt good.

ASLEFshrugged

In case you're unsure who to vote for The Guardian has a helpful tactical voting thingie, just type in your postcode and it gives you the info on your constituency if you don't want the Tories to win.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2017/jun/02/tactical-voting-guide-how-to-make-your-vote-count-in-the-2017-election

If you want the Tories to win then obviously vote Tory.

Kuchinghammer

Viewing all this from a great distance, I'm sorry to say that I think the recent terrorist attacks have handed the election to the Tories. In an emergency, a nation always supports its government (Bush was deeply unpopular before 9/11; ditto Thatcher before the Falklands.) There won't be time to deal rationally with the issue, the opposition will sound unpatriotic if they try to. As for myself, May couldn't have put it better: Enough is Enough - GO, Prime Minister, GO! ;wave

MrsGrey

Trouble is (on that last bit), it's just empty words. Sounds tough at first glance, and resonates with the public but doesn't hold up to closer scrutiny - on various levels. (imo)

Also imo, I think the idea that we need to 'stop them using the internet' is nonsense. Again, it sounds good (yeah, blame the internet) but it will be unworkable and (ultimately) ineffective. And it's not like terrorism didn't thrive around the world in a pre-internet age.

I make you right that it will be a Tory victory, but not for the reasons you suggest. Bear in mind, before the latest attacks, Corbyn had already got some momentum in terms of promising more police etc - and highlighted the fact that cuts came under a Tory govt who had Teresa May as the Home Secretary.;ok

billybondsbeard

This from a woman who, as home secretary, presided over huge cuts in front line policing in the name of austerity.
I hope everybody goes for her big style over this, she will hide behind patriotism and weasel words, and argue that only a 'strong and stable' government can deal with terrorism etc.

Total Hypocrite ;angry

MrsGrey

I'm interested in how this non-publication of the 'foreign funding' report will play out. It might be too complicated an issue to play a part in affecting how people vote. It may be an issue that will be important in the longer term though. The longer the Tories cover up the findings, the more suspicious people will become that it explicitly implicates Saudia Arabia and that May knew about it in her role as Home Secretary.

grey_til_I_dye

I was baffled by the 'Enough is enough' thing. Was she saying

a) that years of Tory government have failed to enact the powers required to prevent extremism

b) that they have the powers, but have failed to enact them

Either way, it sounded like an admission of failure.

Yeoldhammer

MrsGrey said:

Trouble is (on that last bit), it's just empty words. Sounds tough at first glance, and resonates with the public but doesn't hold up to closer scrutiny - on various levels. (imo)

Also imo, I think the idea that we need to 'stop them using the internet' is nonsense. Again, it sounds good (yeah, blame the internet) but it will be unworkable and (ultimately) ineffective. And it's not like terrorism didn't thrive around the world in a pre-internet age.

Cybercrime in general is on the rise though. I don't think you can stop terrorists over the internet but you can certainly disrupt communication and get better lines of intelligence. You only have to look at the NHS (Window XP) fiasco to know how dangerous the internet can be in the wrong hands. Granted had the NHS (already breaking the law using XP machines still anyway) updated to a newer version of windows they wouldn't be in this predicament it shows you what can and could be done.

Not sure what the government can do though it sounds like a statement for more regulation and breaching of privacy using the internet something I could never advocate if you want to maintain any kind of Freedom par se.

grey_til_I_dye

Yeold

That's the trouble for me: it's sabre-rattling with no end purpose.

Unless you are going to have a situation where the only access to the Internet is via government controlled servers, there is simply no way to regulate or police it effectively.

And anyway, if governments haven't learned by now that 'stop the supply' is not the answer then they do not deserve the responsibility of running the country.

May: Sounding tough, doing nothing.