Brexit: the next stage. Deal or No Deal? (and the General Election)

1568101118

Comments

  • ;ok claret

    I hope the Tory's don't win but I very much fear that they will.
  • edited June 2017

    ;ok claret

    I hope the Tory's don't win but I very much fear that they will.

    Suzanne,

    I don't think that will be the case at all. May & the Tories have fought a poor campaign, perhaps based on an arrogance due to their supposed huge lead in the opinion polls. Corbyn & Labour have fought a campaign (as under dogs with nothing to lose) they have gone out, met the public and got their message across which has been well received by the public and has shown in the narrowing of the opinion polls. I believe in the final few days the gap will narrow still further and Labour will take a decisive lead. Far from Labour being in disarray as the media would have us believe, it is the Tories who are in disarray and May herself is finished, exposed over the last few months as weak and clueless, unfit neither to lead her party or be Prime Minister and frankly good riddance to her.
  • Laura, I'd love it, but I think the Tories are starting from such an advantage, plus I thnk when push comes to shove a large number of Tory doubters will play safe.
  • I made (not physically, there were no ties or cuffs involved) a friend watch question time last night as she had been telling me she was voting Tory and couldn't trust Corbyn. I knew she had never read or watched anything and was basing it upon carefully encouraged public perceptions managed by the right wing press headlines. She agreed to watch it with me and at the end remarked that on no account could she vote Tory when represented by Theresa May and that Corbyn although not entirely her cup of tea (her words) came across more than anything else as trustworthy and genuine. We might not win on Thursday but I can tell you even that small victory felt good.
  • In case you're unsure who to vote for The Guardian has a helpful tactical voting thingie, just type in your postcode and it gives you the info on your constituency if you don't want the Tories to win.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2017/jun/02/tactical-voting-guide-how-to-make-your-vote-count-in-the-2017-election

    If you want the Tories to win then obviously vote Tory.
  • Viewing all this from a great distance, I'm sorry to say that I think the recent terrorist attacks have handed the election to the Tories. In an emergency, a nation always supports its government (Bush was deeply unpopular before 9/11; ditto Thatcher before the Falklands.) There won't be time to deal rationally with the issue, the opposition will sound unpatriotic if they try to. As for myself, May couldn't have put it better: Enough is Enough - GO, Prime Minister, GO! ;wave
  • Trouble is (on that last bit), it's just empty words. Sounds tough at first glance, and resonates with the public but doesn't hold up to closer scrutiny - on various levels. (imo)

    Also imo, I think the idea that we need to 'stop them using the internet' is nonsense. Again, it sounds good (yeah, blame the internet) but it will be unworkable and (ultimately) ineffective. And it's not like terrorism didn't thrive around the world in a pre-internet age.

    I make you right that it will be a Tory victory, but not for the reasons you suggest. Bear in mind, before the latest attacks, Corbyn had already got some momentum in terms of promising more police etc - and highlighted the fact that cuts came under a Tory govt who had Teresa May as the Home Secretary.;ok
  • I'm interested in how this non-publication of the 'foreign funding' report will play out. It might be too complicated an issue to play a part in affecting how people vote. It may be an issue that will be important in the longer term though. The longer the Tories cover up the findings, the more suspicious people will become that it explicitly implicates Saudia Arabia and that May knew about it in her role as Home Secretary.
  • I was baffled by the 'Enough is enough' thing. Was she saying

    a) that years of Tory government have failed to enact the powers required to prevent extremism

    b) that they have the powers, but have failed to enact them

    Either way, it sounded like an admission of failure.

  • edited June 2017
    MrsGrey said:

    Trouble is (on that last bit), it's just empty words. Sounds tough at first glance, and resonates with the public but doesn't hold up to closer scrutiny - on various levels. (imo)

    Also imo, I think the idea that we need to 'stop them using the internet' is nonsense. Again, it sounds good (yeah, blame the internet) but it will be unworkable and (ultimately) ineffective. And it's not like terrorism didn't thrive around the world in a pre-internet age.

    Cybercrime in general is on the rise though. I don't think you can stop terrorists over the internet but you can certainly disrupt communication and get better lines of intelligence. You only have to look at the NHS (Window XP) fiasco to know how dangerous the internet can be in the wrong hands. Granted had the NHS (already breaking the law using XP machines still anyway) updated to a newer version of windows they wouldn't be in this predicament it shows you what can and could be done.

    Not sure what the government can do though it sounds like a statement for more regulation and breaching of privacy using the internet something I could never advocate if you want to maintain any kind of Freedom par se.
  • Yeold

    That's the trouble for me: it's sabre-rattling with no end purpose.

    Unless you are going to have a situation where the only access to the Internet is via government controlled servers, there is simply no way to regulate or police it effectively.

    And anyway, if governments haven't learned by now that 'stop the supply' is not the answer then they do not deserve the responsibility of running the country.

    May: Sounding tough, doing nothing.
  • There is an interesting thing that gives me a little optimism and it comes from the referendum. We were told that the remain camp relied on project fear and that appears all that the Tory party rely on in this election.

    I don't think on current record how anyone can be happy with how the tories have brought the NHS to it's knees, are slowly beginning on the police, and the economy will likely follow with a hard brexit. So all they are saying is you cant trust JC to run any of those things, especially the economy. That is surely the same argument that lost remain the referendum.

    I feel more than anything the referendum holds the outcome to this election and were brexit not happening and with May at the helm the Tories would lose massively, there only hope is that leavers are wed to brexit enough to overlook the NHS, education and the police in the belief (without any evidence so far ) that she is best placed to negotiate brexit. I actually think the opposite is true as I think the EU hate her and them and now their moment of vulnerability has passed with the Franco German elections and with strong leaders in France and Germany they will tell May and her self important cronies where to go. Corbyn however will forge friendship and allow a deal which suits both, he will not get the cake and eat it, but that never has and never will be available, that is simply the pup we have been sold.

  • Terrorising the British public won't get ISIS what they want but how many of us will die when just going about our normal days.

    How many of those lives could have been saved had the emergency services and hospitals not been systematically dismantled.

    May talks a reasonable good talk but she never has been able to walk the walk.

    Time to put politics aside, time to put petty differences and selfishness aside.

  • I don't believe anyone died on Saturday due to any dismantling of the emergency services and hospitals.
  • Not sure herb, apparently at least one of these guys was under investigation which was dropped.

    Was it dropped because of resources have to be put into other areas...

    It there was more resources available maybe that choice wouldn't have to have been made...
  • IronHerb said:

    I don't believe anyone died on Saturday due to any dismantling of the emergency services and hospitals.

    More police = bigger chance of stopping something before it happens = Less lives lost.
  • The money due to be spent of Trident can be put to better use opening closed fire stations, increasing police numbers and training more nurses and paramedics.

    The world has changed, nuclear weapons are no longer a deterrent. Putin, Trump and North Korea has seen to that.

    We are fighting a war on a totally different front.
  • Just seen the latest Tory political broadcast on TV and May could not have used the word Brexit anymore if she tried. It's clear they have nothing else to offer but the belief they will get the best deal, even though they have started terribly with regard establishing tone with the EU even at this early stage.

    Leave voters will decide this election. The middle grounders prefer Corbyn now to Milliband and seem to dislike May more than Cameron and that would alter the results of the last election were Brexit not involved. The question is will leavers let go of their brexit victory in place of funded services and trust Labour to still take them out? I really don't know the answer to that.
  • In the last Private Eye they mentioned a letter from Theresa May delivered to voters in Bath used the words "me" and "I" 23 times but only used the word "Conservative" twice.

    In the latest issue it seems letters to five different constituencies used "me", "I", "strong and stable government", "Brexit" and "Jeremy Corbyn" numerous times but not a single mention of "Conservative". Even the candidate is "my candidate" not the "Conservative" or "Tory".
  • edited June 2017
    So, now we have it. Teresa May resorts to her default mode, which she pushed and pushed for as Home Secretary: take away human rights and remove the 'innocent until proven guilty' assumption. Let's punish people on the basis of suspicion, gossip, racism, Islamophobia and racial profiling. Better safe than sorry? Not in my name, Teresa. ;angry

    Look at the things she refers to. 1. 'Longer sentences for even less serious offences' Utterly irrelevant in the 2 London and Manchester attacks. Since none of the attackers had been convicted of anything. So there's no evidence that these measures are needed.

    2. 'making it easier for the authorities to deport foreign terror suspects (3) to their own countries'.

    Well, that wouldn't have helped prevent the London Bridge or Westminster or Manchester attacks, because not one of the 5 attackers had been designated threats by the security services. And even if they had been real 'suspects', the Westminster attackers and one of the London Bridge attackers was British. Where exactly would they have been deported to?

    But it all sounds tough, and it all plays to the right wing and the racist's agenda. It makes it sound like she has the answers to the terror threat. Despite the fact that on closer scrutiny, there's no evidence for these measures. But then, she's not that keen on evidence.

    Instead of this nonsense, why not wait until the MI5 review is complete to see if procedures and processes were at fault, or if resources were too stretched? I mean, why would you actually try to do something that helped prevent terror attacks when you can instead focus on eliciting a kneejerk reaction that will get you elected again? Vile vile woman.
  • Outcast - the highest Remain vote was Market ward in Cambridge, 84.8%.

    Cambridge Utd finished 11th in League 2.

    Sorry
  • If she gets in it will be the beginning of the end for everything I hold dear.
  • Outcast - the highest Remain vote was Market ward in Cambridge, 84.8%.

    Cambridge Utd finished 11th in League 2.

    Sorry

    Only the Premier League matters.
  • Too much Jive talking. They're telling me Lies...
  • Only the Premier League matters.

    I'll remind you of that the next time we get relegated.......
  • Only the Premier League matters.

    I'll remind you of that the next time we get relegated.......
    Then only the Championship matters.
  • Diane Abbott has stepped down as Shadow Home Secretary due to "ill health"

    I think they finally realised that she's not that popular outside of Hackney North

    Abbott will be replaced by Lyn Brown, the Rt. Hon Member for West Ham who went to school in Silvertown and East Ham. Bet she's a Hammer.....
  • edited June 2017
    Daily Mail ;angry

    No doubt at some point it will be forced to retract some of the false statements, twisted reporting, repeatedly disproven lies and smears it has published in its 13 pages of attack today, and apologise. Which it will do in an obscure corner of the paper.

    But by then the damage will have been done.
  • MrsGrey said:

    Daily Mail ;angry

    No doubt at some point it will be forced to retract some of the false statements, twisted reporting, repeatedly disproven lies and smears it has published in its 13 pages of attack today, and apologise. Which it will do in an obscure corner of the paper.

    But by then the damage will have been done.

    Mrs G - I don't read the Daily Heil, owned by Lord Rothermere who has a personal fortune of £800m and lives at Ferne Park in Wiltshire, a 220-acre estate with a £40m house.

    Except when it comes to paying UK taxes, then he lives in France, he inherited non-Dom status from his dad.
Sign In or Register to comment.