The UK is Out - New PM - and whither now for Article 50

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  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    I don't have time to go back and find which page we were discussing it on, but the 'election fraud' issue has inched forward a bit.

    The police investigation into the Tory candidates' possible election fraud in the general election has (in some cases) concluded. Files on 10 cases have been passed to the CPS who will now decide whether or not to prosecute.

    This could, possibly, lead to some results being declared void, and byelections being called.

    (Some other investigations are still ongoing.)
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    And in other news, despite the PM declaring that a bad deal with the EU would be worse than leaving with no deal, it transpires she has absolutely no basis for saying that because the govt haven't actually done an economic impact assessment of a no-deal scenario.

    ;doh

  • claretandblueskyclaretandbluesky
    In other news Theresa May in response to Nicloa Sturgeons request for a referendum in Scotland remarked that this would not be a good idea as it would be divisive and bad for the economy! ;doh
  • NEoldironNEoldiron
    MrsGrey ;clap
    although I fear you're hitting your head against the proverbial brick wall if you imagine facts will have any effect on Brexiteers' opinions.

    This Tory farce of a government would be steaming full ahead into the iceberg all the while assuring us "don't worry, it'll move aside when it sees we're serious" ;biggrin
  • claretandblueskyclaretandbluesky
    Really happy for Holland if the early results are accurate as it seems they have dodged the bullet and will not be the next to fall after Brexit and Trump victories, Wilders has polled more than you would have hoped but it seems no where near enough to gain a victory or even the credibility he sought.

    France next and hopefully Le Pen will also fail.
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    edited March 2017
    The problem for Wilders and the PVV is that its far easier for the centre right VVD to form coalitions with the other centre right and centrist parties. If necessary the VVD can even do deals with the centre left who wouldn't touch Wilders with a barge pole.

    There are a couple of smaller far right parties but they only get two or three seats each in the Dutch parliament so Wilders and his lot are pretty much isolated.
  • MoojorMoojor
    claretandbluesky said:

    In other news Theresa May in response to Nicloa Sturgeons request for a referendum in Scotland remarked that this would not be a good idea as it would be divisive and bad for the economy! ;doh

    I do look forward to the moment May has to go around Scotland explain why leaving a long standing partnership with your strongest trading allies is a bad idea and will hurt them economically, while at the same time explain that the whole of the UK doing that is in fact a great idea and will mean that we will be better off.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited March 2017
    So, Theresa May doesn't do irony, it would seem.

    When asked why she is blocking a referendum for Scotland (until after Brexit, at least, and possibly forever), she said

    I think it would not be fair to the people of Scotland because they’d be being asked to take a crucial decision without the necessary information, without knowing what the future partnership will be or what the alternative of an independent Scotland would look like.

  • NEoldironNEoldiron
    edited March 2017
    Mooj, MrsGrey ;lol ;lol
    See my previous post; Theresa May, the reincarnation of Brian Rix ;biggrin

    ps. is that semi-colon correct? ;biggrin
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    George Osborne will be the new editor of the Evening Standard, promising
    We will judge what the government, London’s politicians and the political parties do against this simple test: is it good for our readers and good for London? If it is, we’ll support them. If it isn’t, we’ll be quick to say so.
    Osborne thought that Joanna Lumley's Garden Bridge was good for London and gave it £30m of taxpayers' money.

    Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear........
  • OutcastLondonerOutcastLondoner
    They described him as "London through and through".

    Remind me of where his constituency is again?

    Does he remain MP while a journalist?
  • billybondsbeardbillybondsbeard
    Great tongue in cheek article by Marina Hyde - made me laugh anyway.....
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/17/george-osborne-editor-substance-london-evening-standard?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=217901&subid=15465653&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    His constituency might be in Cheshire but he has little connection with the area, he grew up in the posh bit of Notting Hill, went to school at St. Paul's in Barnes, the third most expensive school in the UK after Eton and Harrow (the other Bullingdon Club members called him Oik).

    He says he can edit the Standard in the morning and attend parliament in the afternoon/evening, not sure if his constituents will agree with him....

    He wanted to be a journalist when he left Oxford, got turned down by the Times and the Economist before doing a bit of freelancing for the Telegraph. Now he's got a whole newspaper to play with!
  • NEoldironNEoldiron
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/17/george-osborne-london-evening-standard-editor-appointment-evgeny-lebedev

    The headline is just further indication of how the Brexit referendum result was manipulated, along with all the readers of the right wing press.
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    NE, manipulation of "the people" to further the aims of "the rulers" is nothing new. And if I were on Twitter I would be starting a new hashtag: #thanksgeorge. Because he has confirmed to me beyond words what politicians are all about. Themselves. If you think fake news is new, this was written over 125 years ago:

    ......the millions spent on propagating pernicious doctrines by means of the press, and news "cooked" in the interest of this or that party, of this politician or that group of speculators.

    Not a lot has changed really....................
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    ... we still make generalisations about whole groups of people. ;wink
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    "people" is stretching it a bit.......................
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    ;biggrin
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    Madcap - are you saying that anyone who enters politics does so out of self interest? I was elected as a union health and safety representative, did I do that to advance my situation rather than because I was interested in safety at my workplace? I'm a Labour Party member, did I join in order to personal enrich myself in some way?
  • billybondsbeardbillybondsbeard
    I joined the Labour Party because we get Jaffa cakes with our tea at meetings ;tea ;ok
  • claretandblueskyclaretandbluesky
    The new problem of the age old tactic of using information and news providers as a means to manipulate the masses for the agenda of the ruling class is that due to social media and the masses love affair with it anyone can enter the fray and have a go, which is what has happened. Populism is really about a new ability to manipulate through new channels and new peoples abilities to enter what was a closed room. Donald Trump, a man with no previous experience of public office is now POTUS. Brexit would have been unthinkable moments before it even happened and the tide only seems to have turned (hopefully) with the recent Dutch general election, in part I feel due to what happened in the UK and US alerting people to the fact that regardless of how Dave Cameron and Don Trump treated it, that politic is not a game, that the negotiation of power needs taking seriously as there are potentially massive consequences.

    My hope is that the French will reject Le Pen and then the only casualties will have been likely ourselves and temporarily the US, they may have to wait four years to vote him out but may get rid sooner if the first 3 months are anything to go by. With regard ourselves it would be hard to argue we don't deserve what's coming due to the way May, Boris etc have conducted themselves in joining in the red white and blue street party, the price to the tory decision to protect their party and act as though the referendum of June 23rd trumped very other single consideration and argument. One of the greatest casualties here and the US is dialogue and the divisions will last a longer than Osbourne's new job I feel sure.
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    I think "politics" is fine. But I don`t like professional politicians, and with each passing day my view becomes stronger and deeper. I personally find it mind numbingly insulting that the architect of austerity (we`re all in this together) is "busy" coining it in whilst life for the rest of us is getting tougher and tougher. And no, not all politicians are bad people, although I don`t have any empirical evidence to back this up, I just happen to think they are barking up the wrong tree. That`s assuming that the tree hasn`t been killed by acid rain or felled by illegal loggers looking for a quick buck.

    ASLEF, I would assume that your actions and choices are probably based on altruism. You are not a politician so I have no problem with your actions or motives. It has been argued that altruism is a predominant trait within human nature and this trait if left unsullied by the systems forced on us from above would be "enough" to organise society in a fair and just manner. It is the very systems forced on us and bolstered and perpetuated by "leaders" that are evil. Politicians are the talking heads that represent these systems so in my book are by direct association evil. It is a well known truism that power corrupts.

    Trump describes ordinary people (immigrants) as "bad people", people fleeing war, persecution, exploitation, famine etc etc etc. I think there are more "bad people" running countries than there are "bad people" bobbing about in little rubber boats.
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    C&B, I don`t like the people that are being voted in or the people that are potentially being voted in, the chap in Holland with the hair still has the second biggest party and gained five seats, hardly a crushing defeat. Le Pen is appealing to the white working class. As did Trump. Big business ran out of people to exploit in the developed countries so in the name of globalisation moved production to the Far East, China and India. It was sheer greed and the unadulterated pursuit of profit that decimated traditional industries and working class areas in America and Western Europe, and all with the blessing and co-operation of our esteemed leaders. Whole communities were destroyed so we can (temporarily) buy things a bit cheaper and big business can make HUGE profits. People before profits is a distinctly left wing adage, however, the baton has been picked up by the right in the name of populism and who can blame people for voting for them. A return to the "free" market ethos espoused by governments of all colours in virtually all countries in The West is definitely not the answer. Le Pen has promised to put French people and French jobs first and protect French industries, she could just as easily be called a state communist or state capitalist as "far right". These policies seem inward looking, xenophobic, nationalistic and protectionist, but if politicians of all countries had had the guts over the past 40 years to foster, encourage and protect their little piece of the planet rather than pursue globalised grand schemes (a metaphor for exploiting people and resources on distant shores) then we wouldn`t be in this mess in the first place. Communities and the sense of community were sacrificed at the alter of profit and ordinary people are fighting back. It is just unfortunate that the very parties on the traditional left who are/were meant to represent these people seem to be the most detached and white working class people were left with little choice but to vote for parties on the right.
  • billybondsbeardbillybondsbeard
    To the barricades !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;wahoo
  • billybondsbeardbillybondsbeard
    edited March 2017
    Madcap - I agree by the way - I joke about it because I think a revolt of some kind may happen in my lifetime, and will make the poll tax riots look small beer.
  • claretandblueskyclaretandbluesky
    I don't disagree with you Madcap, the problem is as you describe in my view but the answer, also only in my view of course, is that Brexit, Trump, Le penn, Wilders are not the answer. My fear is that if these false solutions are adopted they will make things much worse and harder to fix, I have always felt that the poorest among the population will be hit hardest by the politics of Brexit and Trump.
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    BBB, as much as I admire revolutionary politics, I would never have the stomach for it, and I suspect that of the vast majority of people. We in the West have won huge gains in freedom and economic benefits over the years and I don`t think any politician would be stupid enough to take them away, although many rights and freedoms have been eroded over the past 40 years. My biggest gripe is that all we have done is move a lot of our problems from 150 years ago abroad, but we seem to be OK with that. I 100% believe there is a better, simpler way of doing things and would voluntarily and happily surrender to such a system, the problem is I am probably in a very small minority. I do think the days of revolution are over, although I agree there could well be major unrest in countries but I think these will be short lived, sporadic and certainly not organised revolts. Footballs going well. ;angry
  • billybondsbeardbillybondsbeard
    edited March 2017
    So UKIP's Carswell has quit to become an Independant MP
    The party who are ultimately responsible for forcing Cameron into a Brexit referendum have exactly Zero representation in Parliament, and no say in formulating any Brexit policy.
    And we are led to believe that this is all in our best interests.

    Only in this country..... ;doh
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    Democracy, innit. ;puzzled
  • billybondsbeardbillybondsbeard
    FPTP innit ;hmm
This discussion has been closed.