American Election Discussion

MrsGrey

Is that Steve Bannon who said the press are 'the opposition' and that they should keep their mouth shut?

MrsGrey

Although in some good news, he has given his guys 30 days to come up with a plan to defeat Isis. (I'm not sure if they'll than have a 'Plan Off' between this new one and his old 'foolproof plan' that he said he had during the campaign.


But we should put on our happy faces, because Trump says, “I think it’s going to be very successful.That’s big stuff.”

billybondsbeard

He'll probably nuke Raqqa ;doh

chicagohammer

I do not profess to be an expert but on the campaign trail when he was coming out with this stuff, many people around me said that it is all very well saying it on the stump but he is going to struggle to deliver as he will have to go through congress.

Apparently not!

OutcastLondoner

So this is a very good read on a lot of the practicalities behind this and explains why they might not have cared about it being so haphazard.

https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.qbbsr4ywq

This also goes into more detail about the legal side.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/malevolence-tempered-incompetence-trumps-horrifying-executive-order-refugees-and-visas

simonc

Alderz, I don't appreciate the insinuation, yes i am still supporting him, I may not agree with everything he is doing but he is still by far the better candidate.
I strongly resent the moral high ground that the left appears to want to occupy, those in glass houses.... Let those without sin...

alderz

Appreciate what you like, or don't.

If a person wants to stand behind that sort of policy and defend it by suggesting that someone else would have been worse, then frankly I don't care if they like the insinuation or not.

ASLEFshrugged

Now this is going to be interesting, Theresa Maybe has invited Drumph to the UK for a state visit. Brenda will plead off sick, they won't let Brian near him as apparently they've already got into a spat over climate change, the boys hate Drumph because he once boasted he could have ''nailed'' Diana and that he'd publish nude photos of Kate.

Basically he's going to meet Phil the Greek and I would love to see that.

alderz

This isn't about taking the moral high ground, it's about seeing something disgusting happening and talking against it. If someone voted for him came out and said "this is not acceptable it's not what I voted for" then I could respect that. But suggesting that it's ok because someone else would be worse is just wrong.

ASLEFshrugged

simonc said:

Alderz, I don't appreciate the insinuation, yes i am still supporting him, I may not agree with everything he is doing but he is still by far the better candidate.
I strongly resent the moral high ground that the left appears to want to occupy, those in glass houses.... Let those without sin...

Care to explain how exactly he was the better candidate?

The Left can take the moral highground because by supporting Trump the Right has totally abandoned it.

Vorselaarhammer

So I see he has now sacked the Attorney General for not backing this law...

It's like a soap opera over there.

MrsGrey

This is ironic...


At her confirmation hearings, Sessions (who is Trump's pick for AG who hasn't been confirmed yet) questioned her. He said, “You have to watch out, because people will be asking you to do things you just need to say no about. Do you think the attorney general has a responsibility to say no to the president, if he asks for something that is improper? … If the views the president wants to execute are unlawful, should the attorney general or the deputy attorney general say no?”

Her answer?

"I believe the attorney general or the deputy attorney general has an obligation to follow the law and the Constitution, and to give their independent legal advice to the president.”

Kuchinghammer

Simonc: thankyou for disagreeing (sort of) with a Trump action. But I still disagree with your view & way of expressing it: saying 'the opposition' would have been worse is an assertion, hypothetical, irrelevant and illogical. Stick to the positive, backed by information, is my advice.
OL: Thanks for digging up useful articles, I'm rubbish with the internet ;bowdown

Vorselaarhammer

WOTSIT Hitler....

Funniest I heard yet...

claretandbluesky

Sacking the Judiciary when they attempt to implement the law when it does not support your aims, regardless of the legality of them. I seem to remember a call for that over here recently, although TM did not go down the route of actually interfering her lack of support for the judges was heavily noted and tinged with more than a little contempt. Maybe her special relationship with Trump will be a genuine meeting of minds.

Swissiron

"The furore over the immigration curbs overshadowed an equally important change: the appointment of Mr Bannon to the principals committee of the National Security Council, the all-powerful decision-making body. Mr Bannon has been granted a permanent seat at meetings, while the chairman of the joint chiefs and director of national intelligence have been relegated to appearances when called. The move caused mild consternation in Washington. Susan Rice, formerly national security adviser under President Barack Obama, described it as “stone-cold crazy.”

Mrs Grey, I really dont think the ISIS initiaitive is good news at all. Nothing he's done or suggested will do anything else than increase ISIS numbers of volunteers. It's like saying that Hitler offered good news in helping to get rid of Jewish terrorist groups. The solution could easily be a nuclear bomb on somewhere like Tehran. Would that be good news? Past US presidents and illiterate US Foreign Policy advisers provided the basis for violent anti-US groups in the Mid East, George Bush created the antecedants of ISIS, Obama unfortunately helped recruitment by failing to eliminate Guantanamo Bay, overturning the rule of law when it came to terrorists (and yes I include the illegal assassination of Osam abin Laden in that) and not getting out of Middle Eastern wars. We (developed world leaders),have been bringing all this on our heads for decades and at least since the administration of Reagan, who started off all the illegality, assassinations, incoherence and incompetence (Contras, North etc) - but not in the first place of course. There is I hope a special place in hell reserved for a few recent US Presidents. Trump will not be alone when he goes there eventually

MrsGrey

;weep I was being sarcastic.

TheMadcapLaughs

This could have been written yesterday. But it wasn`t it was written 125 years ago:

"America is just the country that shows how all the written guarantees in the World for freedom are no protection against tyranny and oppression of the worst kind. There the politician has come to be looked upon as the very scum of society."

;bowdown

Putin and Trump are two of the most powerful people on the planet. And both are as mad as a box of frogs. Thank God for democracy.

SuzanneClaret

NEoldiron

Sid, you really do like to quote PK don't you ;wink

simonc

I am not sure where to start or whether to bother answering,
Call me deplorable if you will but everyone seems to be getting their knickers in a twist over a 90 day suspension, this is not a ban, this is a halt on immigration from known terrorist areas until the state dept can get their act together. Do i agree no, as we all know there are bad apples in every barrel so blocking these countries does little or nothing to stop radicals but it does tick off another campaign promise. Call him what you will but he is following through on his promises.



As for better than the other candidate (replying to Aslef) - read between the lines, i was adopted & have adopted 2 other children, i may be a bad man to some but i believe in life unlike the other candidate.

alderz

For goodness sake.

MrsGrey

simonc said:

I believe in life unlike the other candidate.

After digging out others for being on the 'moral high ground' I am somewhat surprised to see you doing the same, with your pro-life comments.

As for your substantive comment - you say you don't agree, but then say Well done, he's ticked off a campaign promise so that's a good thing.

Do you not care if it is a promise to do something vile? Racist? Misogynistic?

How about if he got elected on a promise to exterminate Jews? Would you be an apologist for that?

MrsGrey

If there are bad apples in every barrel, why not block ALL immigration.

You know.

Just on the off-chance?

simonc

I for one would not have elected him if he were to campaign on extermination of any group, & i think the american electorate would agree with me

simonc

As for blocking all immigration, as i said i did not agree with this action it simply has no benefit, however it was something he said he was going to do & he did it. Everyone knew it was on the table and some thought it was important & voted for him because of it. That was not my motivation

simonc

Mrs G thanks for the mods, as for moral high ground i simply answered a question as to one of the main reasons i preferred Trump I was not passing judgement on anyone else, unlike Alderz

grey_til_I_dye

Can we remind users

a) to avoid making discussions personal

b) use of exclamations such as jeez, Jesus Christ etc are offensive to some users and should therefore be avoided

Ta vm

grey_til_I_dye

simonc

To suggest that those who support Roe v Wade do not believe in life is the worst kind of rhetorical nonsense.

To imagine that it is OK to foist a personal moral opinion on an entire nation is sheer arrogance.

If the anti-abortion position is so self-evidently obvious, then it is up to its supporters to make that case, rather than simply denigrate those who disagree.

MunichHammer

I don't like Trump. He scares me to death simply because he has no idea of diplomacy. In fact, he reminds me of a story I read when I was little. "What Wanda wants, Wanda must have". As a history teacher I see parallels between the way Trump is behaving now and Germany in the 20s and 30s. However, this is not only the US but it can be seen in Europe, too. Just like there was a move towards left wing parties in the nineties, now we are experiencing a nationalist surge towards the right. The problem I see is that the generations who lived through the horrors of far right governments are mostly gone and many of the voters nowadays are less interested in politics but pliable enough to follow whatever pied piper the extremist parties throw at them. They get the impression that the traditional parties don't work and will vote for anyone who makes enough noise.

Maybe - and I really hope so - the way Trump goes about things will wake up a few people in Europe. Politicians who realize they actually need to start doing a job again and voters who realize that sometimes polititians actually do what they said they would - albeit not in the way many voters thought they would.

A cousin of mine who lives in the US said that Clinton was the only reason that we now have a President Trump. That many voters didn't vote for Trump but against Clinton and that even the pardonned Thanksgiving Turkey could have beaten Trump to POTUS. To be honest, I didn't like either of the two (I do like a nice roast turkey, though) but as a friend of mine said. You don't live here (Texas), you don't know what it is like for us who do and if you did you would probably think that Trump is the answer to our questions.