Welcome Simone Zaza - official

tomkinsworldclass

Sweepy, with respect, at the last home game I was caught in between 2 fans going back and forth on the issue all game; one fan just slagging him off non stop (and generally speaking complete rubbish throughout), with the other defending Zaza saying give him a chance, etc, etc.

Fans like a scapegoat and both Zaza + Tore have been targeted despite hardly being given the chance to shine and with clear mitigating factors. They may not cut it or deliver how we want them to, but we still have to show our support and an environment to demonstrate that support for them, for whats good for the team. But hey, Carlton Cole was constantly slagged off and he is our 2nd top PL goal scorer of all time, turned down several moves, took a wage cut when we were relegated and played integral role in our promotion. Its one of the elements I most dislike of modern football (and there are plenty), the scapegoat, the endless vitriolic campaign against one of your own. Even the whole debate about money is largely irrelevant because of the mega TV-deal ideology; thus why we have such a large squad; because PL excess allows it.

(none of this is directed directly at you, just speaking in generalities ;hug )

Fortuneseeker

IronHerb said:

Zaza has cost €3m so far.

That may be the case as at today, it's what's to follow is my concern. ;ok

sweepy23

TWC. Good post.

I don't mind fans chatting as its the same as us. Its if they shout demoralising things to players. Is that happening? AS I'm not seeing much evidence of it for Zaza. Tore, plenty.

Yeoldhammer

If he scores 6 goals / 4 goals (2 assists) by the time his contract clause is triggered then 20m for him could be decent business. Otherwise I would feel its another wasted purchase.

SuzanneClaret

I do feel he will come good.

IronHerb

One of C&H's better observations -
'Having watched 45 of Daniel Sturridge I realise how unfair I've been on Zaza !!!! '
;lol

SuzanneClaret

;lol he does have a point.

sweepy23

SuzanneClaret said:

I do feel he will come good.

I hope he does. However the term here that worries me is 'feel'. How many people felt that Maiga would come good? How many people get Carroll would still be a fit even though we signed him when unfit.

We are supposed to be pushing for top 6 and I don't want us to keep hoping.

OldCastleSwift

Good point about the scapegoat, TWC ;ok Valencia has been replaced by Zaza in that respect (and I have been guilty where both are concerned).

Zaza worked hard but desperately needs a goal. The chances he did have on Saturday were either scuffed or passed over. There's a decent player in there, but £20m? I'm not so sure. Currently 4th choice for me (when everyone is fit), but deserves a shot against Sunderland's defence.

OutcastLondoner

My concern with Zaza is he's not even putting himself into places where he can miss chances. At least Valencia would run into the right space and then scuff it. Other players have been trying to supply Zaza but he's been hiding. He's not going to gain confidence unless he's braver.

Adam

People are putting pressure on Zaza because there IS pressure on him. The nature of the deal means Gold, Sullivan and Bilic need to decide whether to spend a lot of money on someone and they have approx 2 months in which to do it.

Vorselaarhammer

Zaza is now at the cross roads, he showed against Palace the work rate etc needed to play in the PL. Now that level has to be maintained in every game.

Next he has to work on his positioning in the box.

Then score some goals.

We shall see, hopefully against Sunderland he will make another step forward.

alderz

I actually think that this decision should entirely be down to Bilic. Sullivan and Gold made a bid and signed a contract with that clause. Team selection should only be down to Slav, and the owners will just have to deal with the contract they agreed to.

tomkinsworldclass

OCS, ;wave Seems strange when fans cry out for a player to give it his all, work hard, etc, etc but are then hounded and derided when struggling. Valencia worked tirelessly until moved but was moaned and booed throughout the Astra home game. Sometimes fans have to remember that players are human, they are subject to many variables which can influence their performances+output (which is more post millennium football) , but its doesnt make them a bad player, just one who is struggling and needs abit of support and help.

Zaza's had his introductory period and now his next 5 games will be much more important than his previous ones, and then can be more rationally scrutinised. I think he'll come good and he will score vs at the weekend. He has a good pedigree but looks exactly what he has been- a player who hasnt played regularly in a long time and one adjusted and used to being a sub, coming on for small cameos without any expectations or responsibility, etc. He's picked up some bad habits, which both you and Outcast Londoner have touched on, but they are things he and the team can work on quite easily.

Sweepy23, People naturally moan when a player does something sloppy or isnt contributing how we would like them to. The verbals was just back and forth between those 2 fans behind me (not next to each fortunately!) with some others shouting stuff out aswell but its thankfully a minority rather than a majority, However, it still seems a theme throughout some forums and platforms (not WHU606 of course ;star) to isolate individuals as the source of everything going wrong. Suppose it might be those fans who constantly blame lack of work rate and passion whenever we lose. ;lol

thornburyiron

As I said earlier on this topic it doesn't matter one iota what anyone on here thinks, Slav thinks he's doing a good job and in fact made him and Cress responsible for our victory on Saturday. I can't see Slav suddenly turning round and saying that he is not up to scratch and doesn't want him. As far as the two D's are concerned they will have had full expectation of splashing out the money if in fact that is the actual terms of the loan deal.

MrsGrey

Interesting to see Slav's comments about Zaza after the match.

Suggests to me that he too had been disappointed in performances so far, but judged that he was more 'up to his normal performance levels' on Saturday.

grey_til_I_dye

thorn

Well, of course it doesn't matter in terms of keeping Zaza (or otherwise), but it matters to people that they get to have their say.

It's what forums are for. If there are topics people aren't interested in, or don't want to know what others think, they are easily avoided.

thornburyiron

I know. The point I was making was that now Slav has said what he said it's obvious he's staying so saying he'll be gone by January or won't play after a few more matches is pointless discussion.
Opinions on whether it is the right decision or not are of course still valid.

MrsGrey

twc

How many times do we see people say 'all I ask is they give 100% for the shirt'?

When we all know that really is not all they ask for. As their tweets/articles/blogs/forum posts/facebook likes etc are all too obvious evidence.

grey_til_I_dye

thorn

Well, you may be right, but it is your opinion. Others are free to give theirs, even if it turns out to be wrong. If people want to discuss it, and give their opinions they are welcome to.

I'm sure you didn't mean it, but your post came across a bit like 'you can all shut up now'.

thornburyiron

It wasn't meant like that at all. I just think it's pointless to keep saying he'll be gone if Slav says he won't.
Saying he should be gone is one thing but saying he will be is another.

grey_til_I_dye

I do think he will be signed permanently, but Slav hasn't quite said we will definitely sign him.

chicagohammer

We do not get to see what he is like in training, what his work ethic is etc, I agree that a couple of times I think he could have gambled and made himself available in the box for Payet or Lanzini etc, that just tells me that he is not quite up to the pace of the game as yet, and is that really a surprise.

The buffer provided in the contract has at least allowed him to be assessed both on and off the pitch which in my eyes is an advantage.

I prefer to trust those far closer to the action than I to decide if he warrants being signed or not, but for me, I think that I have seen enough effort, and he does have the pedigree to be a good signing.

Let's be honest, we have seen far worse and after five games he has not appeared on the long term injured list.

Now why did I have to go and say something like that!!!

;weep

Hammerdublin

I believe we should send him back to his club. I am totally unimpressed. He will never make it in the Premiership, and we don't need such an expensive bench warmer.

Yeoldhammer

No point sending him back till Jan, when (hopefully but don't hold your breath) we have options of AC / Sakho potentially and can search for another striker to get in first.

sweepy23

How many more appearances does he have to make? Until we have to sign him

MrsGrey

Nobody who knows is telling.

Fortuneseeker

sweepy23 said:

How many more appearances does he have to make? Until we have to sign him

Too few!

;weep

Expat_Hammer

sweepy23 said:

How many more appearances does he have to make? Until we have to sign him

He signed on a permanent deal back in September

;run
;sofa

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

I'm usually all for giving players (&a Managers) a decent amount of time to get things sorted

However.....

Zaza doesn't appear to be up to it at all. Could just be stubbornness by Bilic as he's admitted he wanted him for a while, or that he's desperate for Zaza to do well, but I can't for the life of me work out why Fletcher hasn't had more game time.

Unfortunately we probably need to send Zaza back soon