Welcome Simone Zaza - official

AdMeus_CaputFilius

Agree with the above post but don't think he is the type of player to do that, by dropping back he invites pressure on our midfield attack as the defenders push up, so when they do start going forwards there is no outlet further for them to use.

We need someone up their who can at least hold the ball up a bit and lay it back off to the other attackers as they come forwards, then turn and get in the defence to pull them about to create room and gaps.

SuzanneClaret

He could start by not diving.

He has more chance of scoring if he stays on his feet.

He deserved the yellow card.

MrsGrey

suz, I think you should try to look again. (I would like to, for sure ;ok )

I only saw 1 replay but it looked to me like yes, the Southampton player's front foot didn't make contact but I thought his trailing leg did.

So while I hate the diving thing, I'm not (yet) convinced he did ;ok

SuzanneClaret

I could be wrong about that one incident but my opinion of him is formed over several games, not just today.

He needs to learn that you have to work much harder in the prem to get anything.

MrsGrey

Oh yes, absolutely, in terms of an overall assessment, I have been disappointed every single game (even his 1st game, when other opinions of other folks were more positive).

I was just referring to the yellow card/dive today. ;ok

sweepy23

Zaza can Zaza zoom home.

SuzanneClaret

;ok MrsG

KingHammerAbroad

Payet and Kouyate were also both guilty of taking a dive and simulation, but it's ok for them?

At least Zaza put in a decent workrate at chasing and closing down, he had no service yet again. While I don't think he is a top striker who will get 20 goals a season, I think he is being a tad harshly treated considering he's never played in the premier league.

SuzanneClaret

No, no. It's not ok for them at all.

Not in the slightest.

Fortuneseeker

Lets give Fletcher a go and keep the number of times Zaza plays to a minimum so we don't have to buy him outright.

KHA neither has Slimani but he seemed to do ok on his debut.

KingHammerAbroad

Fortune, I think you would agree Slimani has had better service to work from? Not all players adjust to the premier league right away, some adapt quickly, others take time.

MrsGrey

Fortuneseeker said:

KHA neither has Slimani but he seemed to do ok on his debut.

Neither had Soldado and he was never any good....


My point being, some players fit right in.

Others take a bit of time.

Others never do.

As KHA says, Zaza may be a late developer.

;pray

Fortuneseeker

This brings me back to the question I raised during the week can we literally afford to allow him to be a slow developer as that will mean he plays games and we then have to buy him outright to find he isn't what we thought he was and had hoped for.

MrsGrey

I think that the club have enough people qualified and experienced in the development of players to be able to monitor his improvement through training and games, and to make a decision based on whether or not he'll be worth it.

Me, I'm not qualified or experienced, nor do I have access to all the information they have, so I'll let them get on with it ;ok

claretandbluesky

I think regard the penalty shout he certainly looked for it as he sensed the guy coming in and expected the touch, many have done that to us and been rewarded with a penalty, Harry Kane for one if I remember rightly.

I was originally in favour of the referee protection rule but not so sure now, why payet was booked seemed unfair as he was not even approaching the referee, we also picked one up for the handball shout when the referee had clearly made a mistake, it is against natural emotion not to make an appeal and there is a difference between what players are being booked for and aggressive confrontation. We know the rule is comprehensive in it's protection but surely they can wield it more sensibly. Payet at best seemed to make a comment from 20 yards away without moving towards the ref.

Lukerz

Seems to be a bit of confusion about Zaza.

Some state that once he plays 14 games we automatically complete a £20m deal.

Others saying that the option becomes available, but it is still up to us whether we take it up.

grey_til_I_dye

Lukerz

Should be no confusion.

From the OS

The 25-year-old forward joins the Hammers for an initial €5m loan fee, with a permanent fee of €20m automatically triggered after a certain number of Premier League appearances this season, plus a further €3m in contingent payments.

http://www.whufc.com/News/Articles/2016/August/28-August/Hammers-land-Italy-star-Zaza

Lukerz

Ok, so we only have him for another few games.

Better hope Ayew is back soon.

grey_til_I_dye

I'd expect Slav to back his judgement, and doubt very much we will not end up signing him.

thornburyiron

Whatever people on here think of him, Slav rates him and you don't get into the Italian squad without having true ability. It's not like England.

buffybegood

I really can't see G&S trumping up €20m unless Zaza does something extra-ordinary in his remaining few games, regardless of whether SB rates him. I agree he has worked hard in his last few matches, but he's rarely put himself in goal scoring positions and has shown little to suggest that he can be a success in the Premier League.

SuzanneClaret

I think they will buy him if Bilic wants him.

Expat_Hammer

SuzanneClaret said:

I think they will buy him if Bilic wants him.

Hope I'm proved wrong, but God help us if we do
I'd rather have a bounty

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

I really dislike this kind of deal. The only justification I can see for it would be if somebody had a very poor injury record.

Otherwise, I don't really get it. Either loan him or buy him.

MrsGrey

Wasn't this one described as 'hardest deal ever' to negotiate?

(Or words to that effect...)

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

Not sure why. We've been completely done.

If you're going to do a deal contingent on a certain factor, that factor should be goals i.e. loan which triggers a £20 million fee after 10 league goals.

Earning x number of appearances shows very little, and can happen for a number of reasons. Like our current situation, which is that we've had nobody else to play.

Yesterday, his performance was vastly-improved, and he worked very hard. I wouldn't say he looked like scoring, but maybe he is now better acclimatised to the league and to starting a match (he has been a sub for a while with Juve and Italy).

But still think we're in a position where we may have to drop him from the squad for the rest of the season to avoid paying what, at this point, seems a crazy price.

IronHerb

But we are still playing him as a one-for-one AC replacement, which he isn't. Doubt he's ever played as a lone striker with his back continuously to the opposition goal.

tomkinsworldclass

IMO he's worth persevering with because there are signs he is adaptating and learning, although he still has work to do; for example, early on yesterday cresswell was put through and shot which hit the side netting- he chose to shoot because Zaza was lingering at the back post and not going near post into the space. Similarly the goal Lanzini scored is the type of chance Zaza should be in far more often but he has a bad habit of lingering and waiting for the ball, rather than attacking the 6 yard area which would almost guarantee him goals with the amount of chances WHUFC normally create.

I believe he will look more dangerous playing off a striker such as AC or Sakho because it would allow him to get his head up early, have the play in front of him and he can decide earlier what he wants to do because often he has trouble with his back to goal which is an important aspect when leading the line by yourself. When you have your back to goal you cant see everything, time and space are diminished and your decisions making has to effectual otherwise play breaks down and the team is disjointed, etc, etc. We know defensively he is good and he is willing to put in the hard work, so you can trust him in a lightly deeper position, especially in the system we used yesterday. IMO he'll score vs Sunderland.

Fortuneseeker

The facts are he didn't play much for Juventus last season, ok he possibly had better players ahead of him but when he did play he didn't score many, 5 in 19, with the service he would have got it should have been higher. Slav may rate him but he also pushed hard for Tore and we all now know how that has turned out. Just sometimes owners have to save their managers from making a VERY expensive mistake.

OutcastLondoner

His general running was good yesterday, which I think helped us keep the attacking pressure up but he was really bad at making attacking runs, it was like he didn't want to get in those positions where the pressure of a chance would come. There were so many times where he held his position instead of attacking space.