Spurs (A) 12:30pm Saturday 19th October 2024 Live on TNT

Lukerz

Makes you realise how much added value Moyes brought to this side

buffybegood

MIAHammer said:

The first push to the face he would have probably got away as van der Ven pushed him hence why they both got yellow . It was the second one that got him the red card.

I don't think so, the replays the ref saw were primarily of the first incident, the yellow for that was cancelled and he was awarded the red for the first incident imo.

buffybegood

Lukerz said:

Makes you realise how much added value Moyes brought to this side

Not a valid point here imo, we were pretty awful in the PL under Moyes for large chunks of the last 2 years.

Lukerz

Also, Areola. God.

MIAHammer

Lukerz said:

Makes you realise how much added value Moyes brought to this side

Just 6 wins in 2024 (4 for Moyes, 2 for JLo) so don’t really see that we’ve regressed. Not that we’ve progressed either. Just seems to be much of the same.

claretandbluesky

It's hard to see too many positives at present, whilst concerns are far easier to come by. We don't seem to have a plan, at least not one that's easy to identify and if we are not careful we could end up with all of Moyes good work and the financial position provided by the Rice sale being lost in an incredibly short space of time by a very bad appointment. I think Lopetetgui will definitely get until Christmas but not sure he could take much further for granted.

As for Kudus he deserves all he gets, the first was bad enough as everyone knows hands to face equals a red card, then he goes for the second player hands high also just to make sure. Some of our players act like they are encountering refereeing for the first time.

steve

Thing is can they look at his second hand to the face and up his 3 game ban

Slacker

buffybegood said:

jay_in_cpt said:

2 wins in 8, not great, we just seem to fall apart.......

A huge amount of our start is down to our inability, yet again, to sign a suitable CF. Whatever Slacker might want to say in his defence, Antonio is not fit to be a starting CF and his inability to hold the ball up constantly places us under pressure. Yes, I know, Paqueta had a mare today, but Antonio has been pretty awful every game this season except Ipswich.

I don’t necessarily disagree about a new striker, we seem to have mucked that right up with the last three or four so hopefully the new bloke when fit might be the answer.
What I thought was “ harsh”
was having a pop at Antonio before a ball was kicked. To say that we’re playing with ten men was OTT in my opinion.
That’s all.

jay_in_cpt

Moyes had has his day, he did more than most would have expected including me, problem is I'm very, very unsure J Lo is the right man for us....And don't ask me who is, just not sure it's him IMO..

First half although under the cosh for most, we looked organised and defended well, and attacked at time looking good, including Kudus, Bowen and even Antonio, but the way we just seem to fall apart is worrying.......

Oh well, another loss......COYI......

thornburyiron

Mike Dean suggesting Kudus will get a retrospective straight red for the second incident so two red cards in the same game. Not sure what sort of ban that would get, 6 or 7 matches?

alderz

I don’t think there’s such a thing as double red card is there??

claretandbluesky

I don't think it should be more than a three match suspension but what on earth is he doing. The player, along with Bowen, most likely to create a chance for us ends up missing at least three matches.

Expat_Hammer

thornburyiron said:

Mike Dean suggesting Kudus will get a retrospective straight red for the second incident so two red cards in the same game. Not sure what sort of ban that would get, 6 or 7 matches?

Yes, well, Mike Dean is an absolute .............

Please use your expletive of choice

thornburyiron

Technically you can’t get two reds in a game but the two offences, if deemed red card worthy, can receive its own ban. There has been precedent for a 3 game and a 4 game ban being imposed in those circumstances.
It all depends on the referee’s report.

claretandbluesky

One saving grace is that Ipswich and Southampton at this point look likely to fill two relegation spots. When you look at the other teams even though our manager is not adding to our sum at present we do still have better players than some others around us and can hopefully remain around where we are at least.

Not the position anyone envisaged but to be clear of the bottom three by a couple of places may be what we will end up settling for.

alderz

I think some of the reactions to our start are a little OTT, tbh

claretandbluesky

Time will tell I guess, for me I think it's just easier to locate the reasons for concern at present than optimism. Definitely too early to conclude anything at this point and the manager needs time to turn it around, fortunately I think that we are a club that will give him a fair crack and he deserves that. However due to the enormous risks contained in relegation that time will run out eventually.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

claretandbluesky said:

One saving grace is that Ipswich and Southampton at this point look likely to fill two relegation spots. When you look at the other teams even though our manager is not adding to our sum at present we do still have better players than some others around us and can hopefully remain around where we are at least.

Not the position anyone envisaged but to be clear of the bottom three by a couple of places may be what we will end up settling for.

Hahaha, this made me chuckle

MIAHammer

Bowen seems to be immune from criticism even though he lost the ball for their 4th. Still one of our best players though.
Kudus could be a great player if he learned when to stop dribbling and pass. On a couple of occasions in the 2nd half AWB was in a good position but Kudus tried to go it alone or take a long range shot.

claretandbluesky

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:

claretandbluesky said:

One saving grace is that Ipswich and Southampton at this point look likely to fill two relegation spots. When you look at the other teams even though our manager is not adding to our sum at present we do still have better players than some others around us and can hopefully remain around where we are at least.

Not the position anyone envisaged but to be clear of the bottom three by a couple of places may be what we will end up settling for.

Hahaha, this made me chuckle

I hope its something we can all chuckle about as the season progresses, but time will tell.

Pengeman

Lopetegui is so predictable. He pushes AWB up the field and the opposition then comes down his flank as AWB gets stranded upfield. In the first half Rodríguez bailed out AWB quite a few times with last ditch tackles. Today Son's goal and came from the same tactic and AWB was again stranded upfield, a repeat of the Chelsea game. What did Lopetegui learn from the Chelsea game?

IronHerb

thornburyiron said:

Technically you can’t get two reds in a game but the two offences, if deemed red card worthy, can receive its own ban. There has been precedent for a 3 game and a 4 game ban being imposed in those circumstances.
It all depends on the referee’s report.

Thing is that the ref thought it was a yellow. 🤷‍♂️

Lukerz

Only thing I would say, is all our defeats this season have come against sides that are, on paper, better than us; Villa, City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs. We are unbeaten against the other sides we have played (Palace, Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford, Ipswich).

There is quite a gap currently between us & those top 6/7 sides. 17 goals conceded in those 5 games, 3.5 goals a game. In the unbeaten games, we have only really played well against Ipswich (who are newly promoted).

I won’t fully judge JL yet. I think the fixture computer threw out these first 11 games of the season & it must be one of the hardest sequences of games available. We’ve played all the top sides except Arsenal.

We did ok for the first half yesterday. We then collapsed after half time. It’s not the first time, we did it against Chelsea & Liverpool. We concede a lot of goals, easily.

Lukerz

Areola was also incredibly poor yesterday. All four goals, I felt, he should have done better with. Being beaten at near post twice, selling himself & diving the wrong way on the second goal & making a mess of the take shot that led to the 3rd. Poor distribution all game, too.

IronHerb

Surely the second was a deflection off Kilman but in general it was amongst his poorest performances.

alderz

IronHerb said:

Surely the second was a deflection off Kilman but in general it was amongst his poorest performances.

It looked to me like he’d dived beyond the ball even before the deflection, but could be wrong. His passing was also really poor.

Pengeman

Watch Tottenham's second goal https://www.whufc.com/news/extended-highlights-tottenham-hotspur-4-1-west-ham-united (7.07 mins) - their midfielders lining up on the edge of our penalty area. They had freedom of the park. No one picked them up. Antonio wondering whether to pick up one of them or be ready to provide an outlet.

For the fourth goal (9.25 mins) one pass from halfway of the Tottenham half and Son is bearing down on the goal. AWB is upfield somewhere, probably not even in the frame. Other defenders just watching and not anticipating.

A repeat of what happened against Chelsea. Poor coaching or player responsibility? Maybe both, but do players actually understand what Lopetegui is trying to get them to do? Are they even with the manager? Haven't noticed much improvement since Moyes.

Unless we win the next two games Lopetegui has to go. By then he would have had 10 EPL plus 2 cup games to make his mark. How many more does he need. The next international break should be the watershed.
A hurting hammer.

buffybegood

Pengeman said:

Unless we win the next two games Lopetegui has to go. By then he would have had 10 EPL plus 2 cup games to make his mark. How many more does he need. The next international break should be the watershed.
A hurting hammer.

A bit extreme imo.

claretandbluesky

I think that would be a mistake as many managers have failed to make their mark quickly, Arteta for one, and of course Fergie nearly got the sack before becoming the greatest Premier League manager in its history. There is a balance to find however which comes with the huge price of relegation at stake. He gets until Christmas no matter what in my view and as long as we are not looking dire and in a relegation scrap I think you try and stay with him to give him every chance. Someone thought this guy was the one to take us forward and provided him a very large pot to spend so we must respect that decision until it becomes impossible to do so in my view.

steve

So 11 games then