NEWCASTLE (H) WED APRIL 6TH 8PM

Hamstew

Can someone help me out please as being on a plane for the whole match and it being 5:30 here in NY now, I've had limited options to see much analysis on the game. Ive seen quite a few quotes from Moyes saying how fantastic we were at the start of the game however it seems we were 2-0 down after 13 minutes.
Has he gone bananas or is jet lag worse than I feared.

Pengeman

We can'tr score goals but defence was supposed to our/Moyes strong point. then we get thrashed 5-1 against Newcastle, 4-0 against Brighton, 3-1 (FA Cup) against MANU. Now we can'r score and can't defend. Bournemouth, Leeds, Forest, Wolves are showing some fight, we aren't. I can't help wondering whether international calls and self-claims of 'world class' have turned players' heads. How good is Moyes with Stuart Pearce? I fear for our EPL status. Of course, players must be hurting too can change that on Saturday.

jay_in_cpt

Ham IMO We started well, for a change at a higher tempo, but then again 2-0 down after 13 minutes, well a decent first 5 minutes…
But Kehrer gave away a totally needless corner resulting in no one marking Wilson to head home easily, and a second goal with a long pass that sliced us open embarrassingly to make it 2
In all fairness we didn’t give up or let it get us down and deservedly got a goal back after Antonio made himself useful at the corner leaving Pope flapping and Zouma to head home.
Seconds into the 2nd half Augerd proved he also isn’t the finished article gifted Newcastle a 3rd, from there on we were rubbish and 2nd best by a long, long way…
Moyes of course made the usual useless subs without trying to change tactics…

Pengeman

How many times have see the opposing team threat the ball through the middle of the WHU defence and score - as Joelinton did yesterday. And Agura and Zouma are supposed to be out best centre-back pairing. Shae age/injuries have caught up with Zouma.

ASLEFshrugged

Maybe the problem is the number of signings we made in the summer

Moyes had never signed more than 3 or 4 players at once and some of those were on loan but this season we added seven

I know its not Chelsea levels of new faces in the dressing room but,,,

Hamstew

Cheers for the breakdown. And good to here we had an excellent first 5 mins 😂.
I was considering finding somewhere to watch the Fulham game this sat but no chance I'm waisting family time on these jokers.

jay_in_cpt

ASLEFshrugged said:

Maybe the problem is the number of signings we made in the summer

Moyes had never signed more than 3 or 4 players at once and some of those were on loan but this season we added seven

I know its not Chelsea levels of new faces in the dressing room but,,,

Yet he still chooses to play players desperately out of touch;
Soucek…Kehrer…etc, etc.
Like someone else said , Fornals and Lanzini must be terrible in training not to get the odd PL chance, forget the Mickey Moyes mouse European cup…..
IMO I don’t accept the amount of new faces to be the problem, IMO Moyes is the problem…

OldCastleSwift

ASLEFshrugged said:

Maybe the problem is the number of signings we made in the summer

Moyes had never signed more than 3 or 4 players at once and some of those were on loan but this season we added seven

I know its not Chelsea levels of new faces in the dressing room but,,,

Then maybe he (and the board) should have done more in the January windows to reduce the need for such a big turnover in the summer, or integrated the youth teams better to fill some of the gaps.

ASLEFshrugged

My best guess

Fornals isn't getting picked because Moyes thinks Benrahma and Paqueta are better in their respective positions

Ditto with Lanzini plus he's leaving on a free in the summer

We didn't need to add players in January 2022, we were having a pretty good season

Maybe the youth isn't good enough to integrate into the first team, Johnson is the only one to come through in the last few years and he's having a few problems playing at PL level

alderz

ASLEFshrugged said:

We didn't need to add players in January 2022, we were having a pretty good season

I disagree a lot that we didn’t need to add last January. One striker, let’s not forget.

Ironduke

I think (not taking smarties now!) it was the woeful defending for the 3rd goal that did us, because we were making a fist of it and that completely deflated the fightback, Newcastle looked rattled briefly.

It appears there is disgruntlement amongst the players. Certain players are not happy about rotation. This lone striker tactic has been found wanting as everyone we play deals with it. Poor Antonio looks lost. Souchek, Coufal, Kherer, Lanzini, Scamacca, Ings dont look happy...big mistake selling Dawson, he showed guts and spirit.

I would play the youngsters from now on, how bad can they be.

As for the euro adventure I believe that is now lost.

MIAHammer

Ironduke said:

...big mistake selling Dawson, he showed guts and spirit.

Yes, we should have kept him until the end of the season and then let him go. I’m sure he’s not the kind of guy to down tools if he didn’t get a transfer especially if he knew we were going to let him go at the end of the season.

BubblesNeverDies

I made a similar point about Dawson having a contract and that we should have held him to it. I was put down with someone remarking "that's not the kind of club I want to support".

BubblesNeverDies

ASLEFshrugged said:

Maybe the youth isn't good enough to integrate into the first team, Johnson is the only one to come through in the last few years and he's having a few problems playing at PL level

And yet he persists in playing Kehrer, who not only doesn't look to be an EPL player, but doesn't look as if he's a footballer at all.

ASLEFshrugged

Dawson wanted to go in the summer and Wolves deal was only called off because we couldn't sign a CB to cover for Aguerd's injury. Possibly he only agreed to stay because he was promised he'd be allowed to leave in January

BubblesNeverDies

The thing about the 3rd. goal, is that there were 2 Newcastle players staying up to press. When do we ever do that?

OldCastleSwift

BubblesNeverDies said:

The thing about the 3rd. goal, is that there were 2 Newcastle players staying up to press. When do we ever do that?

Our press has been dreadful all season. When we do do it, it's half-arsed and far too easy to play through, as Newcastle demonstrated last night.

IronHerb

BubblesNeverDies said:

I made a similar point about Dawson having a contract and that we should have held him to it. I was put down with someone remarking "that's not the kind of club I want to support".

No, someone just voiced their opinion.

chicagohammer

I am concerned that the defending yesterday will make DM feel he has to double down and secure us at the back, I do not think we will see anything even vaguely adventurous from us during the next couple of outings

Bazshuayi

I believe when there's a lack of confidence and perhaps thats allied to a lack of faith in the managers tactical acumen, then there needs to be a change. Not a lot of games left and plenty are tough. But a new manager bounce could be one of the few things we still have a chance to try

ASLEFshrugged

BubblesNeverDies said:

The thing about the 3rd. goal, is that there were 2 Newcastle players staying up to press. When do we ever do that?

Its what Newcastle have been doing all season and when we came out for the 2nd half we just seemed to forget that

ASLEFshrugged

Bazshuayi said:

But a new manager bounce could be one of the few things we still have a chance to try

Yeah cos "new manager bounce" is a real thing

The only team in the Premier League that has sacked a manager and seen an improvement is Villa

Saints sacked Hasenhüttl when they were 18th and Jones when they were 20th, they're still 20th

Bournemouth sacked Parker when they were 17th, they're now 18th

Chelsea sacked Tuchel when they were 6th and Potter when they were 11th

Every team in danger of relegation apart from Forest and West Ham have sacked managers and they still could go down

OldCastleSwift

ASLEFshrugged said:

Bazshuayi said:

But a new manager bounce could be one of the few things we still have a chance to try

Yeah cos "new manager bounce" is a real thing

Arguably, it is. From Goal.com:

"If we go by statistics and data, the 'new manager bounce' phenomenon is actually real.

Of the 26 managerial changes that took place, 20 of them averaged more points per match (ppm) in his first five matches in charge than his predecessor.

In nine cases, the new man doubled the previous points average or did even better than that."


Edit: looks like that came directly from the Premier League website:

"History shows the fabled "new manager bounce" is real.

In the four complete campaigns since the start of 2017/18, there were 26 managerial changes in the Premier League.

In 20 of those cases, more than three-quarters, the new man averaged more points per match (ppm) in his first five matches in charge than the team’s average that season before his appointment.

In nine cases, or 35 per cent, the incoming manager instantly doubled the previous points average or did even better than that."

OutcastLondoner

I think that’s the thing with a bounce though, they come back down. Bournemouth did improve at first, didn’t they? Didn’t Southampton also look good for a little while?

buffybegood

Seems to suggest the best tactic is to change managers with 5 games left 🤔🤔🤔😂🤣😂

Bazshuayi

Everton have improved under Dyche. Their first home match under him saw a shock. Versus Arsenal? I'm not saying theyre amazing, just an example. Thats on the premise that we only needaround three wins (and if we had Rodgers for example he could refine the team over the summer)

IronHerb

I thought our first half performance wasn't so bad and at half time we had the momentum. That lasted for the first 20 seconds of the second half. That first half performance against Fulham may well be enough, although the silly errors need to be eradicated.

COYI

Lukerz

Yes I also thought we were ok first half, excluding the two awful goals. But maybe when you let in goals like that you can’t be anything more than rubbish. Second half was over after the first minute, especially the manner of it.

MunichHammer

I believe that Newcastle's third knocked us to the floor and we didn't recover after that. We were alright in the first half against a team that is sitting third in the table and beat ManU a few days earlier.
I am confident we will be alright come the Leeds game, possibly by the time we play ManU.

buffybegood

MunichHammer said:

I am confident we will be alright come the Leeds game, possibly by the time we play ManU.

I wish I shared that level of confidence, but I do still think we'll scrape to safety somehow (maybe that's just wishful thinking though.