Everton (A) Sunday 18th September 2:15pm Sky Sports

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  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    The bigger squad was supposed to take away the need to prioritise one competition over others. Moyes just seems to be struggling in how to best utilise the new squad.

    Agree completely re Downes. MOTM v Bucharest and not seen since. Maybe he should have played on Thursday and kept Rice fresh for this game.
  • SlackerSlacker
    OldCastleSwift said:

    Awful performances, 18th in the league and three league goals scored suggests he's getting things wrong, yes.

    After seven games?
    Righto.

  • PrestonHammerPrestonHammer
    So you think everything is fine and he's getting it right then Slacker?
  • alderzalderz
    Slacker said:

    OldCastleSwift said:

    Awful performances, 18th in the league and three league goals scored suggests he's getting things wrong, yes.

    After seven games?
    Righto.

    7 games is nearly a 5th of the season. I personally think that is enough of a sample to form the opinion that we aren’t performing well and that mistakes are being made.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    Slacker said:

    OldCastleSwift said:

    Awful performances, 18th in the league and three league goals scored suggests he's getting things wrong, yes.

    After seven games?
    Righto.

    Yes. We've played seven games. We've lost five of them. Scored just three goals. The performances have been mostly rubbish.

    How can the manager not be getting things wrong?
  • SlackerSlacker
    PrestonHammer said:

    So you think everything is fine and he's getting it right then Slacker?

    Nope, but knee-jerking after seven games is way over the top isn’t it?
    We’re not Chelsea.

  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    alderz said:

    Slacker said:

    OldCastleSwift said:

    Awful performances, 18th in the league and three league goals scored suggests he's getting things wrong, yes.

    After seven games?
    Righto.

    7 games is nearly a 5th of the season. I personally think that is enough of a sample to form the opinion that we aren’t performing well and that mistakes are being made.
    Thing is, I think even that's being generous. The poor form goes back to the start of the year. I think it's 9 points from a possible 42? It's not just this season where mistakes are being made.
  • SlackerSlacker
    Was anybody calling out the manager at the end of last season?

    Thought not.
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    OldCastleSwift said:

    alderz said:

    Slacker said:

    OldCastleSwift said:

    Awful performances, 18th in the league and three league goals scored suggests he's getting things wrong, yes.

    After seven games?
    Righto.

    7 games is nearly a 5th of the season. I personally think that is enough of a sample to form the opinion that we aren’t performing well and that mistakes are being made.
    Thing is, I think even that's being generous. The poor form goes back to the start of the year. I think it's 9 points from a possible 42? It's not just this season where mistakes are being made.
    It's 29 points out of a possible 78. I posted 2022 EPL results earlier.
  • LukerzLukerz
    Worst start than the Avram season
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    Slacker said:

    Was anybody calling out the manager at the end of last season?

    Thought not.

    There were plenty saying that Moyes’s team selections, substitutions, and reluctance in the January window cost us points and ultimately 5th/6th place in the second half of the season. Most accepted he had credit in the bank and were happy for him to have a big summer budget to make the necessary improvements.

    So yes, there were people questioning Moyes at the end of last season, but they were prepared to give him more time.

    The form hasn't improved, despite a summer of rest and a shiny new squad, so it's only right, IMO, that the manager is under increased scrutiny.
  • FortuneseekerFortuneseeker
    BND, I read a stat earlier that it's 37 points from 34 games?
  • LukerzLukerz
    We’re not far away, but there’s no denying that 3 goals in 7 games (one being deflected, another being a scrappy goal-line tap in) is appalling & 4 points is pretty dreadful.

    We are a side in transition & it’s showing. We’ve not had the easiest start with City, Spurs, Chelsea, Everton. But we need to sort this out & quickly. We’ve been a little unfortunate (I can count five times we’ve hit the crossbar/post this season off the top of my head, plus those disallowed goals at Forest & Chelsea). Our defending is better but our attacking is really out of sorts.
  • PrestonHammerPrestonHammer
    There were plenty of people moaning at end of last season, in fact Slacker, I think you were moaning about the people moaning hahaha
  • OutcastLondonerOutcastLondoner
    I think this is what happens when you buy in so many players. He can't work out the right combination to bring them in because there are some many potential set-ups. But I think it's been stupid to have rushed Paqueta in when Benrahma's been the most threatening attacker, while Bowen has been under little threat.

    Son got dropped and look at his reaction. Think we need something dramatic from Moyes next game.
  • LukerzLukerz
    I certainly think we need to get Scamacca & Cornet into the side. I’d like to see Benrahma behind Scamacca & Antonio as a two, Emerson at LWB & Paqueta next to Rice in a two.
  • MIAHammerMIAHammer
    Fortuneseeker said:

    OCS, Sorry seven points from those games!!!! I reckon 10 or David Moyes really needs to start worrying.

    lost 5 of our first 7 - going unbeaten for the next 4 might be a tad ambitous! OCS's target of 7 would give us 11 points from 11 games which would probably be enough for the board to give him more time. Anything less and I think he'll be gone.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    Lukerz said:

    We’re not far away, but there’s no denying that 3 goals in 7 games (one being deflected, another being a scrappy goal-line tap in) is appalling & 4 points is pretty dreadful.

    We are a side in transition & it’s showing. We’ve not had the easiest start with City, Spurs, Chelsea, Everton. But we need to sort this out & quickly. We’ve been a little unfortunate (I can count five times we’ve hit the crossbar/post this season off the top of my head, plus those disallowed goals at Forest & Chelsea). Our defending is better but our attacking is really out of sorts.

    I think we're miles away, to be honest. City, Chelsea, Spurs, sure, but Everton, Brighton, Forest and Villa should have brought more than three points. And it's more than the results; the performances have been poor. I mean, when did we last look comfortable in a league game? Norwich last season? It's just not been good enough and I can't see it turning around any time soon.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    edited September 2022
    Lukerz said:

    I certainly think we need to get Scamacca & Cornet into the side. I’d like to see Benrahma behind Scamacca & Antonio as a two, Emerson at LWB & Paqueta next to Rice in a two.

    Just won't happen under Moyes, IMO. Pretty sure the Wolves game will see a Rice and Soucek pivot and Bowen and Fornals out wide again.

    Areola
    Johnson Zouma Kehrer Emerson
    Downes
    Rice Paqueta
    Cornet Scamacca Benrahma

    Would be a brave line-up, but I suspect Moyes will try to dig out some points with the usual suspects.
  • FortuneseekerFortuneseeker
    edited September 2022
    David Moyes was at pains to say he didn't want to just bring in anybody to bolster the squad he wanted to buy players to improve it. Do we really think many managers would be using the softly softly approach with playing the new additions? He appears to being far to loyal to last seasons team & it's costing us. We gave DM some slack due to the size of the squad last season & were riding on the wave that was the EL campaign so when we dropped points in the second half of the season we put it down to a mixture of the two. The Czech boys were signed to maintain our EPL status now they way they are playing they need replacing but will the manager do it? They are not the only ones who should be worrying about their starting spots.

    MIA, I would like to disagree with you & OCS but agree you are both being realistic. We should though with the players we have be looking at 10 points as a minimum.
  • SlackerSlacker
    So last season it was the lack of players that was the problem, now , after seven (!) games it’s the manager who’s the problem.
    I agree the start has been poor but blimey have a bit of patience.
  • LukerzLukerz
    edited September 2022
    OldCastleSwift said:

    Lukerz said:

    We’re not far away, but there’s no denying that 3 goals in 7 games (one being deflected, another being a scrappy goal-line tap in) is appalling & 4 points is pretty dreadful.

    We are a side in transition & it’s showing. We’ve not had the easiest start with City, Spurs, Chelsea, Everton. But we need to sort this out & quickly. We’ve been a little unfortunate (I can count five times we’ve hit the crossbar/post this season off the top of my head, plus those disallowed goals at Forest & Chelsea). Our defending is better but our attacking is really out of sorts.

    I think we're miles away, to be honest. City, Chelsea, Spurs, sure, but Everton, Brighton, Forest and Villa should have brought more than three points. And it's more than the results; the performances have been poor. I mean, when did we last look comfortable in a league game? Norwich last season? It's just not been good enough and I can't see it turning around any time soon.
    Maybe but this sort of season was always going to come along at some point. We weren’t going to keep on the same trajectory we’ve been on the last two years. It’s about dealing with it & sorting it out. We’ve started well in Europe & no reason why we can’t go far in that as I’d say we’re one of the best sides in it, but we do need to sort out our league form but I don’t think it’s a massive surprise we’ve hit a sticky patch. It’s not always going to be easy street. We’ve not been great but we saw signs of improvement against Villa & Spurs. Today was a drag affair. 0-0 was a fair result.

    I do think we’ll regret not signing a proper CM, though.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    Slacker said:

    So last season it was the lack of players that was the problem, now , after seven (!) games it’s the manager who’s the problem.
    I agree the start has been poor but blimey have a bit of patience.

    No-one's being impatient. People are just calling out bad decisions, performances and results. And Moyes was part of the problem last season, too; he kept picking out of form players (as he has continued to do this season), his substitutions were questionable (as they have been this season) and his man-management skills (e.g. with Benrahma and Kral) are again under the spotlight.
  • LukerzLukerz
    edited September 2022
    Is it time to blood all the new signings?

    Areola
    Kehrer - Zouma - Ogbonna - Emerson
    Fornals - Rice - Paqueta
    Cornet - Benrahma
    Scamacca

    Coufal & Soucek have been awful for ages, so I think we really need to try & get them out of the 11.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    edited September 2022
    Lukerz said:

    OldCastleSwift said:

    Lukerz said:

    We’re not far away, but there’s no denying that 3 goals in 7 games (one being deflected, another being a scrappy goal-line tap in) is appalling & 4 points is pretty dreadful.

    We are a side in transition & it’s showing. We’ve not had the easiest start with City, Spurs, Chelsea, Everton. But we need to sort this out & quickly. We’ve been a little unfortunate (I can count five times we’ve hit the crossbar/post this season off the top of my head, plus those disallowed goals at Forest & Chelsea). Our defending is better but our attacking is really out of sorts.

    I think we're miles away, to be honest. City, Chelsea, Spurs, sure, but Everton, Brighton, Forest and Villa should have brought more than three points. And it's more than the results; the performances have been poor. I mean, when did we last look comfortable in a league game? Norwich last season? It's just not been good enough and I can't see it turning around any time soon.
    Maybe but this sort of season was always going to come along at some point. We weren’t going to keep on the same trajectory we’ve been on the last two years. It’s about dealing with it & sorting it out. We’ve started well in Europe & no reason why we can’t go far in that as I’d say we’re one of the best sides in it, but we do need to sort out our league form but I don’t think it’s a massive surprise we’ve hit a sticky patch. It’s not always going to be easy street. We’ve not been great but we saw signs of improvement against Villa & Spurs. Today was a drag affair. 0-0 was a fair result.

    I do think we’ll regret not signing a proper CM, though.
    But, again, it's not just this season. The drop off in form has been for the entire calendar year and there's sign no real sign of it stopping. I expected this to be a transitional season, but I didn't expect the performances to be as bad as they have been, and nor did I expect to lose five of the first seven, particularly with the teams we've played.

    The CM issue I completely agree with though. Downes doesn't appear to have Moyes’s trust so evidently isn't a serious option, so you're looking at Coventry, Lanzini, Fornals and Paqueta as CM cover. The first three aren't good enough in that position, IMO, and Paqueta is miles off the pace at the moment.
  • LukerzLukerz
    I don’t think we get much from including the back end of last season. We did well until we focused on Europe. We were reasonable until around March. I think it’s better taking the season as a whole. We finished 7th. The year before 6th. We may have tailed off but we had other priorities. This is a fresh season, it’s 7 games in. Not sure it does much to make those 7 games 25 by including games from last season.
  • LukerzLukerz
    Paqueta is not a 10, either. He needs to play in a midfield 3.
  • LukerzLukerz
    The performance today is no different to a lot of what we’ve delivered under Moyes over the last two years. Difference is we aren’t pinching that first goal & getting the 1-0 win. Can’t say it was any different to Villa away, Everton away last season or the year before. We’re just coming out of the wrong side of it.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    edited September 2022
    Lukerz said:

    I don’t think we get much from including the back end of last season. We did well until we focused on Europe. We were reasonable until around March. I think it’s better taking the season as a whole. We finished 7th. The year before 6th. We may have tailed off but we had other priorities. This is a fresh season, it’s 7 games in. Not sure it does much to make those 7 games 25 by including games from last season.

    It shows that the poor form isn't specific to this season, which is important when you're looking at the reasons why and what needs to be done to turn it around. If we'd gone from 11th in January to finish 7th in May, then turned in the performances we have this season, you could say it's a blip, but we went from 4th in January to 7th in May, and that drop in form has continued into this season.
  • jay_in_cptjay_in_cpt
    Lukerz said:

    Is it time to blood all the new signings?

    Areola
    Kehrer - Zouma - Ogbonna - Emerson
    Fornals - Rice - Paqueta
    Cornet - Benrahma
    Scamacca

    Coufal & Soucek have been awful for ages, so I think we really need to try & get them out of the 11.

    Fornals has been way off form IMO
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