Forest 🌳 v Hammers ⚒ - Sunday 14th August, 2pm

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Comments

  • IronHerbIronHerb
    Anyway, 2-1 away win. âš’
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    Did anyone watch Forest's first game? Sounds like they weren't great, but maybe with the nerves out of the way they'll be a tougher prospect on Sunday.
  • HamstewHamstew
    Yeah they were bad. But I'm expecting a different game for their first home game in the Prem. Fans will be well up for it but could work against them if they put in another shocker.
  • Expat_HammerExpat_Hammer
    1-3 Mighty Irons win
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    The general opinion seems to be that Forest were rubbish against the Barcodes but as I only saw the highlights, I can't really comment.
    However any Forest fan seeing the highlights of our game would probably think the same of us, especially when they look at the acres of space we gave Rodri and de Bruyne for City's second goal.
    Very worrying that 2 passes starting from the penalty area (Grealish to Rodri, Rodri to de Bruyne) completely bypassed our midfield, leaving de Bruyne all the time in the world - not that he needed it - to play the through ball to Haaland.
    Really need to be a bit sharper on Sunday.
  • OutcastLondonerOutcastLondoner
    edited August 2022
    I know what you mean Bubbles but they played Newcastle and we played City. I didn't realise during the game how fast Haaland had run to get onto that through ball from De Bruyne, which helped to make it so effective.

    You're right that we need to be sharper but I do think we can be. I don't know how much it came across on TV but in the stadium it was really obvious how they overloaded the midfield with Cancelo and Walker so central that they weren't really playing with full backs at all. I think tactically Pep really outdid Moyes in this one and it made us look worse than I think we will be in most games.
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    Outcast, you had me puzzled there for a minute - Watkins Walker, fixed it for ya ;)
  • OutcastLondonerOutcastLondoner
    BubblesNeverDies said:

    Outcast, you had me puzzled there for a minute - Watkins Walker, fixed it for ya ;)

    Haha - having Watkins there was Pep's real masterstroke
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    Against Newcastle (and for most of last season) Forest started with a 3-4-1-2, they stuck with it until they went 2-0 down then switched to 4-4-2

    Its a pretty tall side so unsurprisingly they won more headers than Newcastle but they only managed 5 shots with none on target

    But of course they've got Lingard and he'll give us the traditional nightmares
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    Lingards stats last week were shocking.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    IronHerb said:

    Lingards stats last week were shocking.

    He wasn't playing West Ham last week...
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    He will try to prove a point that he’s worth the money we wouldn’t pay.
  • alderzalderz
    I'm pretty sure there is a consensus from journalists now that he isn't earning much (if any) more at Forest than he would have at West Ham. I've definitely read that he has a lot of bonuses, but also that he wanted to be closer to Manchester where his daughter lives, and wanted to be the first name on the team sheet, which he wasn't guaranteed with us. Similarly, I've read that Onana was offered the same wage by us as at Everton, but was offered to be first choice at Everton and back up by us.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    I really don't like the idea of players being told they'll be back up (if that is indeed what happened). Where's the incentive to join? What if we got Onana, he played in the ECL games that Rice is suspended for and absolutely smashed it? Put in two 10/10 performances, comfortably out-performed Soucek and became a genuine first team contender? Does he immediately get dropped when Rice is back?

    All hypothetical, of course, but I just don't get it. There must be a middle ground in the conversations where a player is told he isn't a guaranteed starter, but if he gets the shirt and performs he'll keep it, rather than just being a back up.
  • LukerzLukerz
    The speculation was that Moyes suggested to him he intended to ease him in gradually & over a period of time, given his age, whereas Lampard was happy to suggest he’d be straight into the first team & be called upon immediately.
  • Dodger58Dodger58
    I don’t understand why any manager would ‘guarantee’ a player is a starter. Surely that has to be earned through performances both in matches and training. I would also be looking for players who were prepared to fight to be the ‘starter’.

    My view of Lingard’s first spell was that he was a ‘guaranteed’ starter. But after the initial honeymoon period his performance level dropped significantly and he should not have been in our starting XI.

    Onana smacks of someone not prepared to prove his worth - may be wrong and he becomes a superstar, but the ‘baggage’ that appears to come with him makes me doubt it - another case of a player getting too much too soon and believing his (sister’s) hype.
  • alderzalderz
    OldCastleSwift said:

    I really don't like the idea of players being told they'll be back up (if that is indeed what happened). Where's the incentive to join? What if we got Onana, he played in the ECL games that Rice is suspended for and absolutely smashed it? Put in two 10/10 performances, comfortably out-performed Soucek and became a genuine first team contender? Does he immediately get dropped when Rice is back?

    All hypothetical, of course, but I just don't get it. There must be a middle ground in the conversations where a player is told he isn't a guaranteed starter, but if he gets the shirt and performs he'll keep it, rather than just being a back up.

    I don't think it's a case of "you're the back up, someone else is nailed on". I read it more as "you will start if you earn it" and some players want to be told "you will always start"
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    edited August 2022
    alderz said:

    OldCastleSwift said:

    I really don't like the idea of players being told they'll be back up (if that is indeed what happened). Where's the incentive to join? What if we got Onana, he played in the ECL games that Rice is suspended for and absolutely smashed it? Put in two 10/10 performances, comfortably out-performed Soucek and became a genuine first team contender? Does he immediately get dropped when Rice is back?

    All hypothetical, of course, but I just don't get it. There must be a middle ground in the conversations where a player is told he isn't a guaranteed starter, but if he gets the shirt and performs he'll keep it, rather than just being a back up.

    I don't think it's a case of "you're the back up, someone else is nailed on". I read it more as "you will start if you earn it" and some players want to be told "you will always start"
    Maybe, but do you see Onana turning that down if we told him that? Because I just can't see someone as experienced in the game as Lampard telling a 20-year-old with no experience of English football that they're guaranteed to start.
  • OutcastLondonerOutcastLondoner
    Ex has said that it was both game time and the wages. And Everton might not be able to afford much more than us, but we might not be willing to spend what we can afford.

    Everton are also run stupidly. I wouldn't factor logic into anything they do.
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    Maybe Onana compared Rice, Soucek and Downes with Doucoure, Allan and Gomes and reckoned he'd have more chance of getting into the starting XI at Everton
  • WHU_Champo_league_in_7_yearsWHU_Champo_league_in_7_years
    Wonder what condition Cornet is in, hasn't had a pre-season but suspect he's fit enough for the bench

    Also doubtful Scamacca starts if Antonio is deemed fit

    So suspect it'll be the same XI as City and Cornet coming into the bench for vlasic

    Maybe, maybe Dawson comes
  • LukerzLukerz
    See Oggy’s been training with the first team today.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    My starters tomorrow based on no change in CB situation.

    Areola
    Coufal, Johnson, Zouma, Cresswell
    Soucek, Rice
    Bowen, Fornals, Cornet
    Scamacca

    SUBS - Randolph, Ashby, Downes, Coventry,
    Benrahma ,Lanzini, Antonio, Oko-Flex, Baptiste

    OUT - Fabianski, Dawson, Aguerd, Ogbonna,

    Compared to last seasons regular XI -

    Fabianski
    Coufal, Dawson, Zouma, Cresswell
    Soucek, Rice
    Bowen, Lanzini, Fornals,
    Antonio

    SUBS - Areola, Johnson, Masuaku, Diop. Noble, Kral,
    Benrahma, Vlasic, Yarmolenko

    OUT - Fabianski, Dawson, Aguerd, Ogbonna,

    I believe we are already a stronger and deeper squad. Aguerd for Johnson of course. I also think we will get at least another three players, each better then those who have left.
  • LukerzLukerz
    edited August 2022
    Looking at Moyes’ responses, looks like Fab, Dawson, Antonio, Cornet & Scamacca will all be involved Sunday. He says Dawson isn’t far away & they’ll check on him, Antonio has a knock but has trained, Cornet & Scamacca are ready to start so he has a ‘decision to make’.
  • LukerzLukerz
    Personally, any doubt over Fab, give Areola another chance. It’s an opportunity for him to grasp & stay in the side.
  • LukerzLukerz
    edited August 2022
    Forest play a back 3, so potential for us to go:

    Areola
    Johnson - Zouma - Cresswell
    Coufal - Soucek - Rice - Fornals
    Bowen - Cornet
    Antonio
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    Newcastle played 4-3-3 and Forest weren't much of a threat

    Areola
    Coufal Johnson Zouma Cresswell
    Soucek Rice
    Bowen Fornals Benrahma
    Scamacca

    If Dawson is fit then swap him for Johnson, keep Antonio and Cornet on the bench for the second half
  • LukerzLukerz
    No Ogbonna in the U21s so likely to be involved Sunday
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    Ashby and Okoflex also missing tonight so expect them to be on the bench again.

    Not convinced Og will be in the squad for Sunday. Good to see him back in first team training, but I can't see him being risked just yet.
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    Scott McKenna (joined from Aberdeen 2020) started against Newcastle but is likely to be out injured although Cooper is even more vague than Moyes when it comes to sharing details

    Steve Cook (Bournemouth, undisc. January) was expected to start last weekend but is also injured so likely replacement for McKenna will be Giulian Biancone (Ligue 1 Troyes £5m) who kept the bench warm

    Another change could be dropping CM Lewis O'Brien (Huddersfield £10m with LWB Harry Toffolo) who from all reports didn't have the best of games and bringing in Orel Mangala (£12.7m Stuttgart). Mangala replaced O'Brien for the last 15 minutes against Newcastle

    Last weekend Brennan Johnson (Forest academy) and Sam Surridge (Stoke £2.2m January) started up front with club record signing Taiwo Awoniyi (£17,5m Union Berlin) replacing Surridge for the last half hour

    Best guess

    Henderson
    Biancone, Worrall (c), Niakhate
    Williams, Colback, Mangala, Toffolo
    Lingard
    Johnson, Awoniyi

    A more expensive line up than against Newcastle but still basically Championship level
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