Forest 🌳 v Hammers ⚒ - Sunday 14th August, 2pm

alderz

It’s not up to Rice who takes the penalty, it’s up to Moyes. If Moyes wanted one of the others to be on pens they would be, and they would have been last season too.

ASLEFshrugged

In which case Moyes needs to take Rice off penalty duties cos he is absolutely useless

Lukerz

I had no issue with Rice taking the penalty. He is usually Mr Reliable & somebody you would bank on to pull out something in a pressure scenario. Lanzini is our taker but wasn’t on the pitch. Maybe Bowen or Cresswell should be next?

OldCastleSwift

ASLEFshrugged said:

Benrahma's goal should have stood??? Are you serious???

Antonio's foul on Mangala might have been okay in the NFL or rugby but it was a clear foul in football

Rice was awful and he should have given the penalty to someone who could actually take it like Benrahma, Soucek or Bowen. I'd rather have Fabianski take a penalty than Rice

Yes, I'm serious. It was a collision, IMO. Antonio was making a run into the box and yes his arms were up, but that's instinctive (don't know whether you saw when a Forest defender had two hands on Antonio's back in their box but nothing was given).

There were split opinions in the studio, and social media seems to be 70/30 that it wasn't a foul, which to me demonstrates it wasn't a 'clear and obvious error' to warrant the ref changing his mind.

I agree that Rice shouldn't have taken the penalty, but maybe Moyes has decided he's the designated taker and he had to take it. Maybe no-one else fancied it and he thought he'd carry the responsibility as captain.

I'm quite happy to accept that Rice wasn't as effective as we're used to seeing, but he was no worse than Soucek, IMO, who should have scored with that rebound header.

Lukerz

Let’s be honest, whether the goal should’ve stood or not (I felt the ref had allowed it & nothing in that video told me there was a clear foul missed), the handball is a clear red. We were a tad unfortunate on those two.

Lukerz

Clear chances I’d say:

Soucek header after Fornals hit crossbar.
Soucek shot which led to penalty (he should have slotted it into corner anyway).
The penalty.
Zouma header from corner off the line.

The two crossbar efforts were fantastic strikes but not clear chances.

Lukerz

https://twitter.com/squawka/status/1558832396992188417

Fortuneseeker

Based on what David Moyes said in his post match interview I reckon a few of the starting line up today are looking to on the bench from September 1 & that should improve on the "quality" of the options he has to call on.

ASLEFshrugged

OldCastleSwift said:

Antonio was making a run into the box and yes his arms were up, but that's instinctive (don't know whether you saw when a Forest defender had two hands on Antonio's back in their box but nothing was given).

Antonio body-checked Mangala off the ball. In the slow motion replay Antonio even moved to the left to run straight into Mangala

Clear, obvious foul that was completely unnecessary and cost us a goal

Another failure was that Moyes stuck with 4-2-3-1, he could have switched to 4-4-2 with Antonio and Scamacca playing up front together

OldCastleSwift

ASLEFshrugged said:

OldCastleSwift said:

Antonio was making a run into the box and yes his arms were up, but that's instinctive (don't know whether you saw when a Forest defender had two hands on Antonio's back in their box but nothing was given).

Antonio body-checked Mangala off the ball. In the slow motion replay Antonio even moved to the left to run straight into Mangala

Clear, obvious foul that was completely unnecessary and cost us a goal

Another failure was that Moyes stuck with 4-2-3-1, he could have switched to 4-4-2 with Antonio and Scamacca playing up front together

Personally I don't think it's clear and obvious given the split in opinions across the board, but respect that's your view.

Agree on the second point though. Chasing the game, and given Antonio was actually having a good game, Moyes should have gone for two up front.

alderz

At the very least it should have been Bowen off instead of Antonio and Antonio out to the right. He was absolutely bullying people, and Bowen was anonymous

OutcastLondoner

I find it promising that we were able to be a bit incisive even when we couldn't get in behind. Antonio and Scamacca both did a better job of being in the box than Antonio last season and I think that helps Benrahma. Having Soucek running in as well, as opposed to Declan being the one who attacks. Yes, Soucek was extremely wasteful but he was still there forcing defenders to think about his presence - almost for the rebound of Benrahma's shot, should've done better with the header after Fornals shot which arguable he helped create space for, and might have scored from the Benrahma pull back if not for the hand ball. Maybe with a game or two back to making these attacking runs he'll get the knack for scoring back.

I thought that was one of our most dangerous performances this season against a team that were really up for the game.

Last season was exhausting with the small squad but also probably mentally after the disappointment of dropping the Europa League and then 6th place on the final day.

I'm happy that Moyes brought Cornet on for Bowen. Benrahma deserved to stay on and Bowen might need the message that Cornet is as much competition for him as for Benrahma and Fornals.

EXETERHAMMER

A hard watch. Couldn't see us scoring.
But I do believe we will be Brighton. I said it.

chicagohammer

In the first 20mins, I think we initially fell short as Forest were clearly up for it in front of their home crowd for the first time which gave them the edge, we actually showed quality in coming back into the game and by any measure could have, and probably should have, won comfortably.

I am comfortable with the yellow over a red, I think the ball would have struck the keeper if his arm had not been there and I believe it was more instinctive rather than a deliberate or malicious action.

We were unlucky with the disallowed goal, i do see why it was overturned but truthfully, I do not think that not giving the foul was a clear and obvious error, The two players each turned into each other making contact unavoidable and Antonio put his hands out to fend off the contact which made it look worse.

It was an off the ball contact and it is not our fault that the defense literally stood still, these are adult professional players who have been told to play the whistle since they were in diapers.

alderz

This is a momentum chart, and I think it shows quite clearly that we were on top

welovethehammers

chicagohammer said:

In the first 20mins, I think we initially fell short as Forest were clearly up for it in front of their home crowd for the first time which gave them the edge, we actually showed quality in coming back into the game and by any measure could have, and probably should have, won comfortably.

I am comfortable with the yellow over a red, I think the ball would have struck the keeper if his arm had not been there and I believe it was more instinctive rather than a deliberate or malicious action.

We were unlucky with the disallowed goal, i do see why it was overturned but truthfully, I do not think that not giving the foul was a clear and obvious error, The two players each turned into each other making contact unavoidable and Antonio put his hands out to fend off the contact which made it look worse.

It was an off the ball contact and it is not our fault that the defense literally stood still, these are adult professional players who have been told to play the whistle since they were in diapers.

I agree with you. A yellow seemed fair for the handball in the area as the ball was travelling fairly centrally in line of where the ‘keeper was moving so it would’ve likely been saved had the defender not hand balled it. And Imo the penalty should’ve stood (but I can also see why some believe it shouldn’t have)… Antonio peeled to the left at the last second where the defender wasn’t standing but the defender just so happened to move in the same direction at the last second. I don’t think the defender was looking to block Antonio’s run intentionally, nor was Antonio looking to push the defender out of the way (completely accidental of both of them) and I also don’t think the defender would’ve got to Rice in time to tackle him or make a block/interception (which I imagine he was attempting to do just as him and Antonio collided).

thornburyiron

Watched MOTD and Cooper stating they deserved to win, they were the better team and in the first half they were the only team likely to score. Totally ignored the second half and if it hadn’t been for Antonio forgetting what sport he was playing, the first goal was ours.

claretandbluesky

I think we had a bit of bad luck with both shots that hit the crossbar just bouncing outwards rather than inwards. Rice should never have taken the penalty and I feel has an admirable attitude in as much as the Captain takes responsibility, but he is not the best man on the pitch regard that particular task. I hope that it will be his last. I think Moyes should have brought the two new signings earlier as we were chasing the game and they need minutes. I can understand not doing so were we leading and everyone playing well but we needed them on sooner to make Forest deal with a new threat.

Forest looked poor in my view and will struggle, we however looked like we were a little still in pre season and will need find our stride quickly before we find ourselves playing catch up with the teams we will hope to be competing with at the top half of the table.

Lukerz

The start of the season doesn’t define your season but it can set limits on what you can achieve. If we don’t beat Brighton & then go to Villa & struggle, you end up being on 1/2 points after 4/5 games & top 6 becomes next seasons job.

Lukerz

I watched the highlights back after my emotional state had resumed normal levels. Can’t believe we didn’t score & I thought Fabianski, Benrahma, Fornals & Antonio were all very good. Personally, I want a CB in now so we can give Johnson a go at RB. Was not impressed with Coufal.

OutcastLondoner

Yeah, I was thinking that about Johnson yesterday. He's not been awful at CB, though yesterday seemed a little tougher with a more direct threat than against City, but Coufal's had his surgery and still isn't much better than last season so I'd like to see Johnson back at RB. Coufal getting physically bullied twice by Grealish was a bit worrying in the opening game.

Lukerz

Outcast 👍

Our best run last season (where we looked invincible) saw us play Johnson - Zouma - Ogbonna - Cresswell. That was awesome.

Lukerz

And I know early, & he is young, but Scamacca looks like he’s going to need time. He seems quite slow in comparison to the rest of the game. Will need time to settle & won’t be a 20 goal wonder in his debut season.

OutcastLondoner

Quite possibly but there were a few promising moments. There was a nice, sharp spin where he created good space in the box that Antonio never would have but he chose to shoot when an easy lay off was there.

Then I thought he did quite well with the chested lay-off to Soucek, who should've been more awake to the chance. Though he could've probably taken it on himself as well.

He seems hungry.

OldCastleSwift

OutcastLondoner said:

Quite possibly but there were a few promising moments. There was a nice, sharp spin where he created good space in the box that Antonio never would have but he chose to shoot when an easy lay off was there.

Yeah, Benrahma was in space and calling for it. That was something I noticed in his You Tube highlight videos actually; he likes a shot when a pass is probably the better option.

That said, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take (Wayne Gretzky (Michael Scott)), so I don't mind him having a pop. Shows confidence and trust in his ability.

Lukerz

He was excellent yesterday which could be due to Cornet & I thought it was a good bit of management from Moyes to take Bowen (who has been untouchable) off & leave Benrahma on. Now needs to do it more often.

OldCastleSwift

Lukerz said:

He was excellent yesterday which could be due to Cornet & I thought it was a good bit of management from Moyes to take Bowen (who has been untouchable) off & leave Benrahma on. Now needs to do it more often.

Options. That's what we've needed for a long time. And that's why Cornet is a good signing; he can play either side and puts pressure on both Benrahma and Bowen. Antonio had a better game yesterday too, and that might be because we now have Scamacca making useful cameos.

OutcastLondoner

I genuinely think Benrahma will benefit from having more attacking movement in the box. Despite not getting goals, I thought he was pretty good in his first season when he had Soucek and Lingard joining the attack and Antonio in form, staying in the box. Last season, he had a really good link up with Antonio until Antonio started straying because he hit his first dry patch. Rice was the most advanced player but never advanced into the box, he waited on the edge. Bowen was the most useful attacking option but on the other side of the pitch, isn't as much use. So he ends up looking for a pass because there aren't so many options.

Yesterday was much more fluid in attack. We played more like the 2020/21 season.

ASLEFshrugged

West Ham clips

Awoniyi is the "Aldi Aubameyang"

Genius

Lukerz

So Dermot Gallagher says McKenna wasn’t sent off as VAR felt the keeper would have saved the shot. Since when has that ever been considered when a player blocks a goal bound shot with their arm? 😂