Zouma

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Comments

  • LukerzLukerz
    OCS 👍
  • OutcastLondonerOutcastLondoner
    I think this is an issue where a lot of people are thinking out loud. It's brought together a lot of concerns people have on various issues, which are complementing or conflicting with each other but in different ways for different people. There is of course the concern for the violence against the cat, which is the one thing everyone agrees on, plus the need for some kind of punishment, which I think most agree on in principle. But when it comes into what kind of punishment, other social issues like the nature of (social/) media pile-ons, the idea of a person being "cancelled", whether there should be an opportunity for redemption/rehab, a sense of injustice felt by some about the attention given towards this compared to other issues. Some people believe this video shows something more sinister, or the potential for it, while others see it as stupidity. Souness suggested it was worse that he was laughing and posted it on the social media, rather than being a reaction to being angered by the cat. I personally think being angered by the cat is much worse and that the way this was posted shows he probably didn't understand the pain because he's stupid.

    So I don't think anyone is defending anything but trying to work through what they think about it. The "whatabouttery" is I think the process of trying to understand what the punishment should be, by comparing it to where society has accepted a punishment for abuses in the same spectrum.
  • jay_in_cptjay_in_cpt
    On a lighter note, as a true cat lover Myself and partner got to trap the 2 complex cats today ( mum and daughter) to get spayed and then located the 6 tiny new born kittens….which will now be fostered by bottle mums, then hopefully adopted by loving families
  • ScotHammerScotHammer
    edited February 2022
    jay_in_cpt said:

    On a lighter note, as a true cat lover Myself and partner got to trap the 2 complex cats today ( mum and daughter) to get spayed and then located the 6 tiny new born kittens….which will now be fostered by bottle mums, then hopefully adopted by loving families

    Jay, I read this wrongly and thought a “complex cat” was a feline that needed therapy!😜🤣
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited February 2022
    OCS Luke/outcast

    Encapsulate the issue for me.

    I totally dislike what he had done.

    I think there should be repercussions. I don't think it's the employers job to punish an employee for transgressions that have nothing to do with their field of employment.

    I think the law and appropriate enforcement authorities should get on and do their job, fairly without fear or favour.

    For the social media pile on... For all those who want to set themselves up as judge jury and executioner I challenge them to prove they are qualified and impartial. Part of which is, don't be a hypocrite. If they set themselves up as more qualified than Moyes/West Ham/police/RSPCA etc to judge what is an appropriate repercussion because they themselves care more about animal welfare/cuddly pets/what's right than said authorities and organisations... I say to them, go on then, prove it. What do you eat? What do you wear? What do you feed your pets? When did you last donate to an animal welfare charity? Do you bet on horses/dogs? Did you put down rat poison, and so on - the many forms of cruelty that occur off social media with less cuddly animals.

    If your record isn't exemplary, then butt out and let those who have a better understanding and better qualifications do their job.

    Alternatively, get involved in actual things that make a difference. Volunteer at the Battersea dog's home 4 hours a week. Adopt a greyhound.. demonstrate against fox hunting, oppose badger culling, go vegan.

    Social media talk is cheap.

    (I know lots of people who will engage with this issue on social media speak from the heart, and are not hypocrites. But the reality is that a minority are anything other than wallowing in the latest cause celebre).
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited February 2022
    jay_in_cpt said:

    On a lighter note, as a true cat lover Myself and partner got to trap the 2 complex cats today ( mum and daughter) to get spayed and then located the 6 tiny new born kittens….which will now be fostered by bottle mums, then hopefully adopted by loving families

    Good work, Jay. We've got a neutering programme scheduled here as well.. I'm booked in to help with a clowder in my old neighborhood. Hoping to get at least 3 females neutered.

    It's tricky when the mums have just given birth. Need fosters, or people to help feed, if you can't wait until the kittens are old enough for solid food :+1:
  • mikemike
    There's a terrible video going about with west ham fans in a pub kicking a toy cat about and singing some sick songs.
  • BarneyBarney
    Recently we have had a woman kicking a horse, a man whipping a horse and i think it was a farmer mistreating a cow. Neither the Zouma act or any of these are acceptable but Zouma seems to get a disproportionate amount of air time. I am sure some people in the media are using this to raise their own profile.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    You only have to watch the fallout from last nights Panorama to confirm that Barney.
  • claretandblueskyclaretandbluesky
    edited February 2022
    Barney said:

    Recently we have had a woman kicking a horse, a man whipping a horse and i think it was a farmer mistreating a cow. Neither the Zouma act or any of these are acceptable but Zouma seems to get a disproportionate amount of air time. I am sure some people in the media are using this to raise their own profile.

    This is always going to be the case, the higher profile the person the more publicity it will attract. Were Eric Cantona not playing for Manchester United a player attacking a fan giving him abuse would probably never have been noted. Carragher spitting on a drivers windscreen, same again were he a normal person. It's not like they don't know it.
  • nychammer66nychammer66
    We've got a neutering programme scheduled here as well.. I'm booked in to help with a clowder in my old neighborhood. Hoping to get at least 3 females neutered.

    And you don’t consider neutering cruel? I think some of my girl friends might disagree.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited February 2022
    No. It not cruel. We aren't neutering your girlfriends. And the vets use anaesthetic.
  • jay_in_cptjay_in_cpt
    NYC, are you being serious ?
  • PrestonHammerPrestonHammer
    Well nyc is helping to neuter 3 cats, I'm pretty sure if he thought it was cruel he wouldn't be helping.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    No, I'm the one helping. NYC was quoting my post but the quote thingy didn't quite work.
  • nychammer66nychammer66
    MrsGrey said:

    No. It not cruel. We aren't neutering your girlfriends. And the vets use anaesthetic.

    So if Kurt anaesthetised the cat first it would have been ok?
  • claretandblueskyclaretandbluesky
    Neutering is one of the priorities of any animal shelter as the stray cat/dog population increasing means you can never get the problem under control and the shelters, that have very limited resources, are constantly over stretched, treating and homing an ever increasing population.
  • jay_in_cptjay_in_cpt
    nychammer66 said:

    We've got a neutering programme scheduled here as well.. I'm booked in to help with a clowder in my old neighborhood. Hoping to get at least 3 females neutered.

    And you don’t consider neutering cruel? I think some of my girl friends might disagree.

    This comment wins my award for the oddest comment on this thread and I’m guilty of a few….
    Just baffling to be honest, IMO 😳
  • KuchinghammerKuchinghammer
    I read the last few comments as a call to neuter Zouma (it was very early in the morning) 😵
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged



    https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2022/feb/15/david-squires-on-kurt-zouma-west-ham
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    I only learned about this today, and I'm shocked:

    If you hit an animal which is covered by The Road Traffic Act 1988 – namely, dogs, goats, horses, cattle, donkeys, mules, sheep and pigs you are legally required to report it to the police.

    But if you hit an animal not mentioned in the Road Traffic Act – a cat or a fox for example – you are not required by law to report it.


    I only became aware of this because someone asked me to sign a petition to get the law amended (one of those 'so many signatures will get it scheduled for parliamentary debate' things). So why is the RSPCA not all over this?
  • alderzalderz
    Yeah, that’s really odd
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    My guess Mrs G is that its down to the animals named in the Road Traffic Act generally having owners which is why they’re named and the police should be notified so that the owners can be told. Foxes are wild so are not in the Act and although cats can be domesticated pets their species felid is still considered to be a wild species as they still contain most of the traits of the big cats.
    Cats are however covered by a general RSPCA remit so I doubt they’d want to spend much time and money campaigning for cats to be added to the RTA list.
  • yoyoyoyo
    A bloke down the road wrote his cat off after hitting a deer. He contacted the Police who weren't interested. I see quite a few dead badgers on the road side, I guess wild animals don't count
  • whupathmanwhupathman
    yoyo said:

    A bloke down the road wrote his cat off after hitting a deer. He contacted the Police who weren't interested. I see quite a few dead badgers on the road side, I guess wild animals don't count

    Why was he driving his cat:) jokes aside hitting a deer can be very dangerous and drivers have been killed, very scary pleased it was only his car
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    thornburyiron said:

    and although cats can be domesticated pets their species felid is still considered to be a wild species as they still contain most of the traits of the big cats.

    maybe.

    But in reality, most cats hit by cars will be pets. (Although, because the numbers are not recorded as they don't have to be reported, we don't know the %.)

    And many will be wearing collars with contact details or will be microchipped. You'd have thought a nations of pet lovers would want a system that (a) mitigates against wounded animals being left in the road to be run over again or left by the side of the road to die a lingering painful death, or (b) leaves pet owners with little support in finding out where their beloved pet has disappeared to or retrieving the body to bury it.

    But, you know... nation of pet lovers...
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    I was reading further. Apparently (I haven't fact checked this yet) the law is nothing to do with animal welfare and all to do with economics.

    It's so that the owner of said animal who so carelessly got itself run over can be prosecuted for damaging a car. Because the named animals are by law supposed to be kept under control.
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    Dogs should be on a lead when out on a public road.
    Goats, horses, cattle, donkeys, mules, sheep and pigs should be penned unless being led/herded on a public road.
    The owners are therefore responsible for their behaviour.
    Cats are left to their own devices (hence catflaps) and will roam wherever they want, sometimes with fatal consequences.
  • alderzalderz
    MrsGrey said:

    I was reading further. Apparently (I haven't fact checked this yet) the law is nothing to do with animal welfare and all to do with economics.

    It's so that the owner of said animal who so carelessly got itself run over can be prosecuted for damaging a car. Because the named animals are by law supposed to be kept under control.

    A nation of animal lovers
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    I see his brother has been charged by the RSPCA for filming it but no news as yet about Kurt.
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