Transfer Speculation (1st June onwards)

IronHerb

I don’t recall any figure above £50m and it’s now £45m after Areolas loan fees and the small fees for the kids brought in.

Lukerz

Any figure is purely just guesswork? No ITKs will know our budget.

OldCastleSwift

IronHerb said:

I don’t recall any figure above £50m and it’s now £45m after Areolas loan fees and the small fees for the kids brought in.

Both C&H and Ex stated the budget was in the region of £75m earlier in the summer, and I'm sure both said it was before any sales, too.

Lukerz said:

Any figure is purely just guesswork? No ITKs will know our budget.

Probably guesswork, but to have to 'reputed' ITKs giving the same figure could suggests it's come from someone in the club (or, equally, that one has copied the other).

IronHerb

So we’re saying £25m of new money plus the £25m from Haller for the new striker?

IronHerb

Correction - So we’re saying £50m of new money plus the £25m from Haller for the new striker?

Lukerz

But let’s say £50m is true, or £75m, or whatever

Does that include salary expenses for the 2021/22 accounts, does it also include agents fees etc. Does it include money towards new club gear for the players, equipment, medical costs etc?

All we do know is the club is trying to do the best deal. The smallest transfer value & realistic terms.

OldCastleSwift

IronHerb said:

Correction - So we’re saying £50m of new money plus the £25m from Haller for the new striker?

It depends what the actual figure is. In January, we were told Moyes had £30m to spend on a striker, but he chose to hold off until the summer.

One assumes that there would have been a fairly significant loan fee for Lingard, so let's say £25m rolled over to the summer. The original figure would suggest that the board provided £50m new money (unlikely), whereas Ex's revised figure suggests £20m has been added to the pot.

Personally, I'd be surprised if we spent much more than £25m in permanent transfers this summer. I can see Lingard costing us £15m-£20m and I think we'll up paying no more than £10m on a CB. Then we'll see a couple of loans or frees to bulk up the squad a bit.

If we're not prepared to go an extra £5m for one of Moyes' alleged top targets - someone who could be a long-term investment and probably double his value over the next two or three years - then I think even the £45m figure is a touch ambitious.

PrestonHammer

Equally you could say that the player doesn't really fancy moving to West Ham and that David Moyes doesn't think he would be a good fit.

Lukerz

OCS - I think going an extra £5m on a player who we are not convinced wants to be here is money badly spent

OldCastleSwift

Lukerz said:

OCS - I think going an extra £5m on a player who we are not convinced wants to be here is money badly spent

Sure, but that's assuming that's the reason the deal is off.

Personally, I believe it's just as likely that turning a £14m deal into a £19m deal was just too expensive. Every chance that that extra £5m could have had a significant impact on other potential deals.

Lukerz

The Athletic seem to suggest we are hopeful of signing Zouma.

OldCastleSwift

I'm sure we are.

But hasn't he already rejected us?

This is another one that will likely go until the last couple of days of the window; him and Chelsea will probably wait for a better offer to come along, and we'll wait for them to realise there might not be one and lower his price tag/wage demands.

Lukerz

The likelihood is a lot of deals will happen in the last week of August. Clubs will start to become desperate to shift wages and/or raise last minute funds for spending, players will also panic, knowing it’s now or never. At the moment, Chelsea want £25m it seems. They may not on deadline day. It’s a gamble but nobody else has signed him yet.

Lukerz

I wonder if we have actually submitted a bid for Lingard? If we said to Man Utd, ‘here’s £20m’, given they still need to strengthen & he is a reserve player, surely they would accept that & that would give Jesse a decision to now make. Pearce said on talkSPORT the ball is in United’s court. Well that must mean we have a bid on the table? How can it be in their court if we’ve made no offer?

buffybegood

Lukerz said:

I wonder if we have actually submitted a bid for Lingard? If we said to Man Utd, ‘here’s £20m’, given they still need to strengthen & he has a reserve player, surely they would accept that & that would give Jesse a decision to now make. Pearce said on talkSPORT the ball is in United’s court. Well that must mean we have a bid on the table? How can it be in their court if we’ve made no offer?

My guess is we've gone in lower than £20m, certainly no more than £15m at this point imo.

Lukerz

In other news; who is conducting Arsenal’s transfer business? Xhaka gets a new deal, Martinez is sold a year ago, they now want Ramsdale for £30m, Ben White for £50m - he can’t head a ball. Aubameyang gets a new mega-money contract & hasn’t scored since…

Fortuneseeker

We need players who are as good as the ones we have or even better. They cost a lot and their wages likewise so that is where the problem appears to be unless you buy from Eastern Europe. Could we afford one of the many players Barcelona are willing to sell? Almost certainly not for the reasons I gave above.

OldCastleSwift

Lukerz said:

The Athletic seem to suggest we are hopeful of signing Zouma.

£25m bid submitted, according to lequipe.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Sky sports reporting Milenkovic is likely to stay at Fiorentina now as ourselves, Spurs and Wolves have all been put off by the finances involved

Apparently the player is frustrated but he hires his agent....if he isn't happy he should sack him, zero sympathy

alderz

re: Zouma rejecting us previously

Do we know anything for fact, or is it just Twitter ITKs saying things and newspapers recycling them? I saw someone hammering Lingard on Instagram the other day saying he’d disrespected the club by saying he’d rather play abroad than for West Ham, which I’m 99% sure is a rumour and not a direct quote.

**I’m not criticising speculation on a speculation thread** but I do think we all need to remember that so much of this is rumour and most will have little to no grounding in reality.

OldCastleSwift

Same old thing alderz; a lot depends on who and what you believe.

Ex has stated more than once that Zouma rejected our initial approach because our wage offer was nowhere near what he wanted. Quite how we got to that point given Chelsea haven't, supposedly, accepted a bid I don't know; maybe it's all been done via agents.

But as you say, how much of this is fact is anyone's guess. Ex is the best one out there, IMO, so I'm inclined to believe there's some truth to it.

Incidentally, I think the 'Lingard wants Atletico Madrid' also came from one of Ex's statements, so again, there could be something in it.

alderz

Rejecting a contract offer and rejecting a club are two different things though. “No I don’t want to play for them” be “if be happy to play for them if they pay me x” are massively different, IMO

OldCastleSwift

They amount to the same thing though; he's not coming on those terms so he's rejected the move (if any of this is true).

alderz

I don’t think they do amount to the same thing though. “I’m not coming, regardless of what you offer, stop ringing me” means there’s no point pursuing, but “this is what I want” means there is.

buffybegood

OldCastleSwift said:

They amount to the same thing though; he's not coming on those terms so he's rejected the move (if any of this is true).

But there's still a huge difference; one is basically saying I don't want to play for that club under any circumstances, the other is more like a negotiating tool to get a better deal, and so, with nearly 2 weeks of the window still open, could mean that a compromise could be reached which sees him join us.

OldCastleSwift

alderz said:

I don’t think they do amount to the same thing though. “I’m not coming, regardless of what you offer, stop ringing me” means there’s no point pursuing, but “this is what I want” means there is.

buffybegood said:

OldCastleSwift said:

They amount to the same thing though; he's not coming on those terms so he's rejected the move (if any of this is true).

But there's still a huge difference; one is basically saying I don't want to play for that club under any circumstances, the other is more like a negotiating tool to get a better deal, and so, with nearly 2 weeks of the window still open, could mean that a compromise could be reached which sees him join us.

Yeah, I'm not saying he won't come if we match or get close to his demands; all I'm saying is that he has currently (supposedly) rejected the move.

Fortuneseeker

So a £19 million deal is too expensive for Milenkovic whilst one of £25m isn't for Zouma?

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Fortuneseeker said:

So a £19 million deal is too expensive for Milenkovic whilst one of £25m isn't for Zouma?

What type of argument is that? They are players of different ability and experience

If the club value Mipenkovic at £14mil then he's price £5mil too expensive whereas if they value zouma at £25mil then he's not expensive

ASLEFshrugged

Fortuneseeker said:

So a £19 million deal is too expensive for Milenkovic whilst one of £25m isn't for Zouma?

Milenkovic's agent fee was too expensive not the transfer fee Fiorentina wanted

OldCastleSwift

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:

Fortuneseeker said:

So a £19 million deal is too expensive for Milenkovic whilst one of £25m isn't for Zouma?

What type of argument is that? They are players of different ability and experience

But what value can you put on those measures? Ability is subjective, as is experience to an extent. Milenkovic is much more experienced at international level, for example. And although Zouma has made 238 league appearances compared to Milenkovic's 170, he is three years older.

Buying Zouma over Milenkovic gives you PL experience, but is that worth £6m? Only Moyes' opinion on that matters, I suppose.

But I get Fortune's point; if, as it appears, it's been an either/or situation, it seems odd to not go to £19m to guarantee one of Moyes' top two targets, but be prepared to go to £25m for a player that a) Chelsea may not sell and b) whose wage demands we may not be able to meet.

The risk is that we end up with neither and have to settle for a third or fourth choice, or no-one at all.