Couldn't think....part 4

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  • Two different types of vaccine. The AZ one uses dead virus so the immune system quickly picks it up as an invader whereas the Pfizer one uses mRNA where the vaccine fuses with cells which then destroy the mRNA but generates its own spikes which the immune system can then recognise for when and if the invader arrives.
    That’s a kind of brief layman explanation based on the technical explanation my daughter, who works for Pfizer, gave me. She’s still waiting for a jab under the NHS as Pfizer say it would be unethical to vaccinate staff.
    I had the AZ vaccine with no effects other than the sore arm when the injection point was pressed.
  • If anyone’s interested in how the vaccines were developed there is a very good program on Discovery+
  • IronHerb said:

    I'm a Pfizer man myself. Sore arm but little else.

    I'm guessing this what not your decision tho? Or could you choose? Pls let me know....Interested to know.....
    Out here in SA, no major progress, and quite worrying TBH....
  • No choice jay. You show up to your appointment and take what's on offer. I would be happy with either vaccine.
  • That’s right. You get one and they put one aside for your second jab to make sure you get it within the 12 weeks.
  • edited March 2021
    Thanks IH / Thornburyiron...You are all fortunate....I have no idea when I will get my first one ( I'm 50 later this year )...But then again I can't moan, after all I made the choice to live here .....
  • Is there any lockdown going on in SA jay?
  • Doesn't help that AZ are charging South Africa 2/3 times the price it charges Europe.
  • edited March 2021
    IronHerb said:

    Is there any lockdown going on in SA jay?

    There was / wasn’t/ was .... and so on.. our current lockdown is level 1 , minimum.... but so many just don’t think it can affect them... meanwhile my partner has lost a brother in law and one of our neighbours in his 40’s died... it’s certainly not great... Just hoping the roll out of the vaccines start happening a bit quicker than they have...At present we are all totally left in the dark.....
    This will now be the 2nd year in a row that I can’t visit my Mum in Chigwell....Sad.....
  • That doesn't sound great. Stay safe.
  • IronHerb said:

    That doesn't sound great. Stay safe.

    Thanks so much...👍🏻
  • Had the AZ Monday, felt a bit rubbish Tuesday, but better by Wednesday.

    Crikey, I sound like Craig David
  • AZ for me - shivers overnight and a few aches, but right as rain by the morning
  • IronHerb said:

    Is there any lockdown going on in SA jay?

    There was / wasn’t/ was .... and so on.. our current lockdown is level 1 , minimum.... but so many just don’t think it can affect them... meanwhile my partner has lost a brother in law and one of our neighbours in his 40’s died... it’s certainly not great... Just hoping the roll out of the vaccines start happening a bit quicker than they have...At present we are all totally left in the dark.....
    This will now be the 2nd year in a row that I can’t visit my Mum in Chigwell....Sad.....
    Really sorry to hear that Jay. I hope it does pick up soon.

    I’ve been covering vaccine inequality and while obviously a lot of governments are failing, it’s maddening that the rich countries have taken all the vaccines while others feed off crumbs. We actually could have more vaccines being produced right now but profit is being put first.
  • Got mine tomorrow afternoon. So can I expect a rough day on Sunday? Bed-ridden for a few hours? Say from around 3pm?
  • Got mine tomorrow afternoon. So can I expect a rough day on Sunday? Bed-ridden for a few hours? Say from around 3pm?

    My boss had most of the week off work after getting hers, her husband was absolutely fine. My mum was absolutely fine, my girlfriend’s parents both sick, her grandmother fine. So basically it’s pot luck
  • alderz said:

    Got mine tomorrow afternoon. So can I expect a rough day on Sunday? Bed-ridden for a few hours? Say from around 3pm?

    My boss had most of the week off work after getting hers, her husband was absolutely fine. My mum was absolutely fine, my girlfriend’s parents both sick, her grandmother fine. So basically it’s pot luck
    Yeah, I've heard similar things all week. Whatever happens, I'll be telling my other half I need a lie down just before 3pm on Sunday for about 90 minutes.
  • all the jabs are working much better than expected, had both of mine #getthejab
  • Outcast I’m not sure where you got your information but the vaccines are being made in several countries in the world under licence. The AZ vaccine was mostly funded by the government which is why we were able to secure the large numbers of doses. The Pfizer one was funded purely by Pfizer who refused funding from any government to ensure they were not committed to any country and if the vaccine didn’t work they would have accepted the losses of the £1-2bn put into it. Their costs per vaccine is to recoup investment. All the vaccine developers worked together to find a quick solution which is why AZ went the dead virus route and Pfizer the mRNA way on the assumption that at least one method could work. As it turned out they both worked. Other producers have worked in the same way most with a great deal of success. It seems only the French who originally insisted on developing their own for the EU until they found out their attempt failed and can’t develop one this year they had to go for the Pfizer/AZ route but late.
    Vaccines are being produced as quickly as is possible but every batch has to be tested before it can be released for use but it is only the so called rich countries that have the ability to make and produce it.
    COVAX are distributing vaccines to their participating countries and I believe about 250 million doses are going in about a months time.
  • edited March 2021
    Thorn, we don’t just have AZ doses. We have ordered more doses than this country has people for, while others will have to wait a year or two before they will have enough.

    The Pfizer vaccine did receive public funding - it came through Germany to Biontech. Moderna received public funding as well. They all received key public funding at the early stages, some of it from non-governmental sources.

    There is manufacturing capacity in the world that is not being used because pharma companies who control supply are not using them. They hold IP rights on products that were publicly funded, when there is a clear public interest in vaccinating globally, especially if strains develop because of continuing outbreaks in other countries. In fact the EU is threatening to waive these IP rights so it can speed up manufacturing for itself, while at the same time blocking the opportunity for developing countries to do the same. The buying negotiations are completely opaque so there are massive disparities in what countries have had to pay for the vaccine, including the AZ one which Oxford had wanted to have set at a low price.

    250m through Covac is crumbs. Covac was supposed to be a facility for equitable distribution of vaccines. Instead it was bypassed by rich countries who bought up stocks and will offer Covax wha they have left.

    My information is from Covax, the UN, MSF, health researchers, diplomats and NGOs, as you ask.
  • Outcast there are valid points on both sides and I can only speak regards Pfizer and AZ and for both of those profit or money was not the motivation for developing the vaccine.
    My information and perspective comes from inside Pfizer, none of which I was meant to know so I prefer not to take this any further in case I mention something which somehow gets out there and could lead to trouble. I know of one instance, not involving me I hasten to add, where this happened.
    You’re right that countries such as the UK ordered far more doses than needed for the population to have shots eg about 100 million for us but at the time of ordering it was a safety net as nobody knew if they would work so over ordering was done to ensure that from all sources we’d have sufficient. Luckily apart from the French vaccine they’ve all been successful although I have no idea about the Russian or Chinese ones.
  • Well that was a bit anticlimactic.

    I felt a bit light headed yesterday lunchtime, fell asleep around 5pm, woke up 3am then went back to sleep for another 3 hours

    I have a negligible ache in my arm, not even as bad as a small bruise but that's it

    At least I didn't grow horns (anti-vaxxer myth from the 1790s)
  • IronHerb said:

    Is there any lockdown going on in SA jay?

    There was / wasn’t/ was .... and so on.. our current lockdown is level 1 , minimum.... but so many just don’t think it can affect them... meanwhile my partner has lost a brother in law and one of our neighbours in his 40’s died... it’s certainly not great... Just hoping the roll out of the vaccines start happening a bit quicker than they have...At present we are all totally left in the dark.....
    This will now be the 2nd year in a row that I can’t visit my Mum in Chigwell....Sad.....
    Sorry to hear this, jay. It makes me angry that people who don't think it can affect them are happy to ignore the fact that their actions can affect others.
  • Thanks Mrs Grey....

    The only one thing I think is good out here are that NO shops will allow you in without a mask on, then again you then get idiots walking around inside wearing it like a bloomin necklace!.

    Just gotta remain positive and be as safe and responsible as possible....
  • That really annoys me

    There are people who are exempt from wearing face coverings for medical, psychological and other legitimate reasons but the ones wearing "chin nappies" aren't otherwise they wouldn't be wearing a mask at all

    In Japan, South Korea and other far eastern countries wearing a mask during winter when colds and flu are worst is accepted as normal. This is possibly why they've done far better with Covid than us Europeans.
  • I had the jab 2 weeks ago. I didn't help myself by going in with a slight hangover, well a headache but felt fine that afternoon. The next day felt awful but felt back to normal on Monday morning for work.
  • That really annoys me

    There are people who are exempt from wearing face coverings for medical, psychological and other legitimate reasons but the ones wearing "chin nappies" aren't otherwise they wouldn't be wearing a mask at all

    In Japan, South Korea and other far eastern countries wearing a mask during winter when colds and flu are worst is accepted as normal. This is possibly why they've done far better with Covid than us Europeans.

    I get so much angrier in a shop at people half wearing a mask (if your nose is out it should be chopped off, imo) than people not wearing one at all
  • One simple thing that people don't do, and easily could, is shop alone. Maybe as a single guy I'm a bit biased, but the instructions are that we should shop alone where possible, but I usually see couples and, worst of all, mum, dad and 2 or 3 kids clogging up the aisles when we're still supposed to be socially distancing.

    I get that a parent might need to take a child or 2 in a shop with them (although I do draw the line at it being necessary once they're 14 or so), but both parents with kids is completely unnecessary, irresponsible and selfish imo. I've seen supermarket staff query lack of masks when people enter a store, but never seen people shopping together questioned.

  • edited March 2021
    One simple thing that could be done (where I am) is ENFORCE THE FLIPPN' RULES YOU HAVE!!!

    Don't add more rules, because those that are ignoring the whole shebang aren't going to suddenly start complying because you make the curfew hours more restrictive. Jeez.



    During one of our earlier lockdowns, there were rules about numbers of people allowed in store per size of building. And the supermarkets were quite strict about letting in only 1 shopper, rather than a couple or family.

    Now, here in Greece we have been in lockdown since 6 November*. Yesterday our daily infection numbers were the highest EVER ... but there's nothing explicit in the rules about group shopping, and supermarkets have no measures about restricting numbers or groups entering the premises.

    All our measures restrict

    'reasons for leaving the house'
    'times you are allowed to be out (curfew)'
    'wearing a mask even when outside'


    And nearly 5 months on under that regime, with tweaks at various points to make things even stricter, those who ignored it from the start continue to ignore it. There's no enforcement.


    * Yes, we have been in lockdown for about 18 weeks, and we have no bubbles. And our ICUs are full, and our infection rates are rising.
  • The problem is who does the enforcing, there simply aren't enough police to have a copper on every corner.
This discussion has been closed.