Villa on Sunday

Expat_Hammer

I'd much rather dirty diving villa went down

Hopefully Bournemouth won't sue us for that dire performance yesterday forcing them into relegation

whupathman

I am actually please a team with a home capacity of 4 went down, although its a mute point in lock down

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

They got relegated on 34 points, so no sympathy for me

They have every right to feel aggrieved, but they have been woeful this season and well earned their position.....Shouldn't be relying on other teams

Also it wasnt like that error happened this week, it happened first game back of the restart and in the first half

Hamstew

Still can't help but feel for the teams that went down. Nothing to do with the fans or players but there will no doubt be job losses at these clubs.

grey_til_I_dye

it was being used, but there were so many bodies in the way the cameras couldn't get a decent view.

IronHerb

Don't think so Grey. They admitted to a technical hitch.

thornburyiron

Even so, the TV cameras clearly captured the fact that the keeper had the ball pushed up against the side netting. I doubt VAR Even covers such situations but it was obvious to the naked eye so didn’t really need the electronics.

Lukerz

The system did not beep as the ball went over the line, due to the ‘goalkeepers position’. It obscured the technology & the normal response for how it detects. VAR then refused to overall as it was not a referee error but a technological issue.

The reality is, no other side played a game where the GDS system was ‘down’ or the sensors being obscured, so the argument is that match was not on a level playing field with the other fixtures. Given there is clear video evidence of the ball crossing the line & given the system admitted to an error, I would not have been surprised if the game had been ordered to be replayed.

Hamstew

The TV cameras picked it up almost straight away. Regardless of the goal line technology I don't see why common sense doesn't come in to play in situations like that. Even 3 or 4 minutes after the games restarted. Especially when VAR seems to take ages anyway.

chicagohammer

I am not sure that any League rules were breached as the system was operational, it appears to me very unfortunate that the exact circumstances simply exposed a literal blind spot in the system.

I think that the obvious uncertainty In the Goal/no goal decision should have resulted In VAR stepping in to second guess the system, it seems ridiculous that the incident was not reviewed for accuracy,

Someone should have stepped up and said,”we should take a look at that” but unfortunately it turned out to be a classic case of “not my job”

thornburyiron

Considering that every goal that’s scored is reviewed to see if there’s any reason they can find to disallow it, the ref could easily have asked for a review even if he went over to the linesman and asked him, which is what they used to do before the goal line technology. I know the lino wasn’t dead in line but he is supposed to be level with the last defender so he must have been able to see the ball in the net. I think it was a pretty poor excuse from the officials.

MrsGrey

Lukerz said:

The system did not beep as the ball went over the line, due to the ‘goalkeepers position’. It obscured the technology & the normal response for how it detects. VAR then refused to overall as it was not a referee error but a technological issue.

The reality is, no other side played a game where the GDS system was ‘down’ or the sensors being obscured, so the argument is that match was not on a level playing field with the other fixtures..

I don't buy that argument at all.


It is a level playing field (ie. fair) because any other team could have been playing a match where those (exact, but unprecedented) circumstances occurred (body positioning obscured the sensors).

It was just bad luck, not unfairness or a built-in disadvantage.

grey_til_I_dye

IronHerb said:

Don't think so Grey. They admitted to a technical hitch.

not according to this: hawk-Eye statement on the goal line incident during Aston Villa v Sheffield match this evening. pic.twitter.com/I2u5lqKMqe

— Hawk-Eye Innovations (@Hawkeye_view) June 17, 2020

“The match officials did not receive a signal to the watch nor earpiece as per the Goal Decision System (GDS) protocol. The seven cameras located in the stands around the goal area were significantly occluded by the goalkeeper, defender, and goalpost. This level of occlusion has never been seen before in over 9,000 matches that the Hawk-Eye Goal Line Technology system has been in operation.

“The system was tested and proved functional prior to the start of the match in accordance with the IFAB Laws of The Game and confirmed as working by the match officials. The system has remained functional throughout. Hawk-Eye unreservedly apologises to the Premier League, Sheffield United, and everyone affected by this incident.”

VAR did not intervene as play continued and Villa won a free kick, starting a new passage of play – although it could have checked in the interim period.


https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/sport/national/18524270.sheffied-united-denied-victory-aston-villa-goal-line-technology-failure/

BubblesNeverDies

Grey, whose cameras were the ones that show the ball crossing the line?

IronHerb

Fair enough Grey.

ASLEFshrugged

Hamstew said:

The TV cameras picked it up almost straight away. Regardless of the goal line technology I don't see why common sense doesn't come in to play in situations like that. Even 3 or 4 minutes after the games restarted. Especially when VAR seems to take ages anyway.

I'm getting deja vu as I'm sure we've been over all this before.

In the Premier League VAR is only used if a goal is scored, if a penalty is awarded, for a straight red card and to check mistaken identity.

As far as the ref was concerned there wasn't a goal so VAR wasn't consulted

BubblesNeverDies said:

Grey, whose cameras were the ones that show the ball crossing the line?

Sky Sports

grey_til_I_dye

ASLEFshrugged said:

Hamstew said:

The TV cameras picked it up almost straight away. Regardless of the goal line technology I don't see why common sense doesn't come in to play in situations like that. Even 3 or 4 minutes after the games restarted. Especially when VAR seems to take ages anyway.

I'm getting deja vu as I'm sure we've been over all this before.



In the Premier League VAR is only used if a goal is scored, if a penalty is awarded, for a straight red card and to check mistaken identity.

As far as the ref was concerned there wasn't a goal so VAR wasn't consulted

BubblesNeverDies said:

Grey, whose cameras were the ones that show the ball crossing the line?

Sky Sports

PGSOL said after the game that the VAR officials could have intervened, but I rather suspect they were caught on the hop.

Hamstew

Aslef I never said anything about VAR other than just that the amount of time VAR often takes for other situations. So taking the game back 3 or 4 minutes once word had got to the ref really wouldn't have mattered.

Lukerz

It may not have been in their remit, but morally, it’s like looking at something wrong happening in the street & ignoring it.

IronHerb

But Lukerz, the refs do that every week.

Hamstew

Lukerz said:

It may not have been in their remit, but morally, it’s like looking at something wrong happening in the street & ignoring it.

Yep people may think it would be weird to pull a game back that many minutes but to me not giving a legitimate clear goal after everyone in the world saw it is weirderer.

MrsGrey

I disagree. Once the game has restarted, you can't go back.

After the restart, players play in the reality of the situation - a goal was scored or it wasn't. You can't subsequently change the reality.

Imagine that scenario happened in injury time of the game at 1-0, no goal was given so score is unchanged - the leading team played the final minutes cautiously to protect their lead, needing a win to avoid relegation...

And then the ref says oh, guys, actually it's 1-1 and I'll just blow the final whistle. Shame that you didn't hoof it long, or bring the keeper up for the final corner, thinking you needed to not concede. Really, you needed to score, but of course you didn't know that....

alderz

MrsGrey said:

I disagree. Once the game has restarted, you can't go back.

After the restart, players play in the reality of the situation - a goal was scored or it wasn't. You can't subsequently change the reality.

Imagine that scenario happened in injury time of the game at 1-0, no goal was given so score is unchanged - the leading team played the final minutes cautiously to protect their lead, needing a win to avoid relegation...

And then the ref says oh, guys, actually it's 1-1 and I'll just blow the final whistle. Shame that you didn't hoof it long, or bring the keeper up for the final corner, thinking you needed to not concede. Really, you needed to score, but of course you didn't know that....

Isn’t the suggestion that you’d rewind the clock to go back to that point of the decision in question? So it would be more like you’ve played an extra 5 minutes thinking it’s 0-0, but then you go back and carry on from 5 minutes ago?

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

Mrs G,

But surely you’d just replay the minutes that passed? Like, if 5 minutes of play passed before they decided to go back and give the goal, you’d just have an additional 5 minutes injury time.

MrsGrey

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

Mrs G,

But surely you’d just replay the minutes that passed? Like, if 5 minutes of play passed before they decided to go back and give the goal, you’d just have an additional 5 minutes injury time.

Oh, ok. I hadn't realised that was being suggested - you wipe out anything that happened in the ' pretend' 5 minutes.

Hmm. Not sure. I'm thinking, if another goal was scored ... Red card... Rash tackle breaks a players leg...

so you'd immediately wipe off the goal, rescind the red card. But you can do nothing about the injury. Maybe you could allow an extra sub.

Is that fair?

I'm not convinced. I suppose if the rules were clear from the outset and everyone knew what the options were. That could be a way forward. But in the no-goal example we were discussing, you can't just make it up on the hoof.

MrsGrey

Do you have a maximum time?

5 mins? 10? 20?

Isn't that a bit arbitrary?

But otherwise a match might go on for hours

Fortuneseeker

Apologies if this isn't deemed relevant to what is being debated but here goes anyway. Burnley v Bournemouth this season 1-0 to the home team when a cross comes in hits Smith on the shoulder, the ball breaks and it is run up the pitch for Harry Wilson to equalise it would appear but no because Mike Dean rules the goal out & takes it back to the other end after VAR has deemed that there has been a handball which is converted so instead of 1-1 it is 2-0.

thornburyiron

When the technology was developed and tested did it not occur to them that when the ball crosses the line there’s a possibility that there may be defenders and attackers in close proximity or even on the goal line. I’ve watched several videos on how it was developed and tested and in all of them there was either only a goalkeeper involved or an empty goal.

ASLEFshrugged

alderz said:

Isn’t the suggestion that you’d rewind the clock to go back to that point of the decision in question? So it would be more like you’ve played an extra 5 minutes thinking it’s 0-0, but then you go back and carry on from 5 minutes ago?

Except as far as I'm aware there is nothing in the laws that allows a ref to "rewind the clock".

thornburyiron said:

When the technology was developed and tested did it not occur to them that when the ball crosses the line there’s a possibility that there may be defenders and attackers in close proximity or even on the goal line. I’ve watched several videos on how it was developed and tested and in all of them there was either only a goalkeeper involved or an empty goal.

As they said in 9000 matches nothing like this has happened before, I'm sure there were plenty of incidents where there have been players in close proximity and on the goal line but Hawkeye has worked fine apart from this one glitch.

BubblesNeverDies

It boils down to "never mind what your eyes are seeing, trust the sensors".
Imagine having an auto driver system in your car and you can see it's taking you over a cliff, oh wait.....