Covid19: The Football Thread

thornburyiron

Interesting that Russia has a population of circa 150M but a density of circa 9 per sq km due most of the land being frozen.
Probably why they changed the way they now record density.

MrsGrey

Project Restart also looking at broadcasting matches for free, if they are played without fans.

Lukerz

Presumably, should a player or member of staff of any team test positive after the season gets underway (assuming this season will happen one way or another), then that teams entire staff and players will have to enter a two week self isolation period (as per advice & this new tracing app they are hoping to get launched). Now they may well test the entire playing staff, but what it half the squad tests positive? Do they say ‘well you need to fulfil this fixture, so U23s and reserves will suffice?

Each & every time that happens at any club, you add another two weeks onto them potentially being unable to fulfil fixtures, plus any team they may have faced recently after that player tests positive, would also have to go into self isolation, potentially, & any team that team may have played in a recent timeframe.

And on and on and on it goes...

Barney

We will not be able to meet in groups even after whatever changes come on Sunday so how can they allow at least 25 people on a football pitch? call the season off for everyones safety and reset to the end of last season. It is better to deal with the issues which arise from that than one person getting the virus.

Moojor

Can't find the link now on the BBC but it was about changes that things like hair dressers may have to adopt to go back to work. Face masks/aprons, basically full PPE to work that close to customers.

So with a caveat that I can't remember the full details, if "full" PPE may be required for those in jobs which can't do 2 meter social distancing, will footballers be required to wear it?

I'm really struggling to see any way football or any close contact sport will be able to resume while measures are in place.

IronHerb

It's not just about the distance between people but the time of close proximity. You are unlikely to catch the virus just by passing close by to someone in the street. Hairdressers will be in close proximity to their customers for 5, 10, 15 minutes plus so will need some protection.

IronHerb

Just read about Kyle Walker getting upset because following his earlier breach of social distancing it was reported he did it three more times recently and he then plays the 'Mental Health" card, not for having reasons to breach the rule but for being pulled up for doing so.

How can football consider getting going again when you have instances like this, and others, taking place.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52587293

MrsGrey

Moojor said:

So with a caveat that I can't remember the full details, if "full" PPE may be required for those in jobs which can't do 2 meter social distancing, will footballers be required to wear it?

Not all jobs do/will require PPE/masks even if yu can't keep 2m apart.

People working in supermarkets now, for example. Plus there seems to be a distinction between working with the public, and being in proximity to colleagues .. so teachers at present r in future, in a staff room. Or retail workers when they are on the shop floor or having a break?

There's also a consideration of inside/outside and how the risks are reduced outside.

I think it's clear that it's not one size fits all. I think they are trying (football, I mean) to see if they can create a 'bubble' within which the risk are minimised sufficiently

Like you, though, I'm no convinced it's feasible or even desirable.

The only thing I can see is the argument that it should be treated no more or less favourably than any other section of the economy - people and businesses want to get back to work, so if it can be managed within the bounds of acceptable risk to the 'employees' and wider society, why not?

MrsGrey

IronHerb said:

Just read about Kyle Walker getting upset because following his earlier breach of social distancing it was reported he did it three more times recently and he then plays the 'Mental Health" card, not for having reasons to breach the rule but for being pulled up for doing so.

My reading of it is that he was complaining about media intrusion not only into his life but also the lives of his wider family. Which, if so, seems fair enough.

I am assuming it is the gutter press as usual? I haven't seen anything about him reported in recent weeks, as I don't look at the trashy tabloids' websites...

Hamstew

Lukerz said:

Presumably, should a player or member of staff of any team test positive after the season gets underway (assuming this season will happen one way or another), then that teams entire staff and players will have to enter a two week self isolation period (as per advice & this new tracing app they are hoping to get launched). Now they may well test the entire playing staff, but what it half the squad tests positive? Do they say ‘well you need to fulfil this fixture, so U23s and reserves will suffice?

Each & every time that happens at any club, you add another two weeks onto them potentially being unable to fulfil fixtures, plus any team they may have faced recently after that player tests positive, would also have to go into self isolation, potentially, & any team that team may have played in a recent timeframe.

And on and on and on it goes...

Exactly what I was thinking. Just takes one player or member of staff to get it and it blows everything out of the water.

OutcastLondoner

I think it's not just about players or footballing staff either. If they're going to be creating a bubble, then are they going to be cooking, cleaning and driving to games by themselves? That would be great but I doubt it's going to happen. Unless they put the support staff up in the same accommodation and pay enough that people will stay away from their families for a month or more, there's a chance they could get the virus, which could be passed on to players and bring the whole thing down.

MrsGrey

Yes, that's obviously an issue. I've seen reports that the arrangements you mention are being discussed - effectively shifting the players and staff to a separate environment, isolation really.

And while that would work to solve some of the issues, I think it is asking too much of players and staff.

ASLEFshrugged

The Bundesliga will resume next weekend behind closed doors

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52576780

Borussia Dortmund (2nd) v Schalke 04 (6th) - the "Ruhr" derby
Saturday 16 May 2:30pm live on BT Sport

Sunday 5pm leaders Bayern Munich away at Union Berlin (almost 600km away)

Obviously just because the Germans can get something organised doesn't mean we could do that over here :whistle:

Barney

I am sure crowds will gather outside stadiums even if they are neutral grounds. I hope it goes well and safely for the Germans but i dont think we should follow suit.

IronHerb

MrsGrey said:

IronHerb said:

Just read about Kyle Walker getting upset because following his earlier breach of social distancing it was reported he did it three more times recently and he then plays the 'Mental Health" card, not for having reasons to breach the rule but for being pulled up for doing so.

My reading of it is that he was complaining about media intrusion not only into his life but also the lives of his wider family. Which, if so, seems fair enough.

I am assuming it is the gutter press as usual? I haven't seen anything about him reported in recent weeks, as I don't look at the trashy tabloids' websites...

But he is the one leading the media, gutter press or not, to his wider family. He hasn't denied it so that is possibly four breaches. He deserves all that he gets imo, but of course he will blame everyone else.

Hamstew

ASLEFshrugged said:

The Bundesliga will resume next weekend behind closed doors

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52576780

Borussia Dortmund (2nd) v Schalke 04 (6th) - the "Ruhr" derby
Saturday 16 May 2:30pm live on BT Sport

Sunday 5pm leaders Bayern Munich away at Union Berlin (almost 600km away)

Obviously just because the Germans can get something organised doesn't mean we could do that over here :whistle:

Meanwhile cases in Germany rise for a 3rd day

MrsGrey

Presumably you aren't saying there's any kind of link between these 2 things?

Hamstew

Not particularly with football but I think there is certainly a link between people letting their guard down. No one really knows what will happen from day to day especially when rules are relaxed. My point really was that its curious that the cases go up days after they say the fist pahse of the pandemic is over. Things can change from day to day and wouldn't be surprised if football starts and then stops again.

MrsGrey

The reference to first phase is I think about the stage at which the curve is flattened? So there are still more cases each day but not increasing exponentially.

I agree though that many people seem to feel that once the restrictions are easing, it is somehow ' safe' or that the risk of catching it is less, and we can go back to normal. That's not really true.

For me, it's best to put out the message that the risk that has reduced is the risk of you not getting a ventilator when you get desperately ill.

Like you, I can see a likelihood of a start/stop scenario.

thornburyiron

I see that IFAB has told FIFA that when leagues restart 5 subs can be used but there can only be 3 sub opportunities and VAR can be dropped but they’re leaving up to the leagues to decide what they want to do. The PL will discuss it with clubs but unlikely they will want to drop VAR now
Bizarre that not only are the changing rules mid season but leagues can decide whether they want to use them or not.

MrsGrey

Bizarre in the same way that there's a global pandemic that is fundamentally changing the way we do things?

Lukerz

I see that if the season is not complete, there seems to be momentum (via media articles today) for a 'weighted points per game for both home & away games', & this approach being used to decide League One & League Two standings next week.

If applied to Premier League, would see us relegated as third bottom if no further matches were played, the season voided & that approach used to determine points.

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/efl-premier-league-promotion-relegation-4116483

claretandbluesky

I could never see that happening, these clubs are businesses as well as sporting teams, the hit taken due to a rule change if relegated would never be accepted without litigation.

I imagine all relegated clubs would join in suing and that is the last thing the ruling bodies need when dealing with such difficult times anyhow. I imagine from a business point the clubs would be successful. They need diplomacy and a way to end the season without litigation, it will be either void or promote but not relegate in my view. There is a chance they will watch the German league and if that goes well take a chance, but as has been pointed out it only need one player of one team to test positive and that team cannot play anymore and so the whole thing is again bought into question.

From a strategy point of view the aim should be to end the season with as few people complaining as possible so the next season can begin as cleanly as possible so we can move on.

buffybegood

Looking forward though, say the new season starts in the autumn sometime, and crowds aren't allowed yet (which is the expected scenario I think), does that mean that the whole season is played without crowds? Even if they were allowed on health grounds halfway through the season, would it be fair that we played say Villa at home with no fans, but had to play them away when fans were allowed? Again it could easily be argued that the integrity of the league next season would be affected if there is a radical change mid-season.

MrsGrey

The Dutch govt have ruled no fans until there's a vaccine. Whenever that may be. Although football itself will start next September. ( Reported by BBC)

thornburyiron

Mrs G it’s not bizarre in the same ways. How can a body implement laws/rules but allow leagues to decide if they want to use them or not.

MrsGrey

You mean like letting leagues/competition decide if they use VAR or not, and in some matches but not others in the same competition?

thornburyiron

That’s because VAR is not available to clubs outside the PL but is compulsory for clubs in the PL.
Imagine if they dropped it now and we got relegated because of an offside goal against us which VAR would have disallowed.
I can’t see how dropping VAR avoids a health risk. In fact given the time it takes to make a decision players would be able to social distance easier than whilst actually playing.

MrsGrey

The health risk is for the officials in the VAR control room.

MrsGrey

thornburyiron said:

Imagine if they dropped it now and we got relegated because of an offside goal against us which VAR would have disallowed.

Imagine if we got relegated because they didn't play any more games but a bunch of people did a statistical 'on paper' prediction of points.

There is no perfect solution.

At least if everybody plays the last few matches, the results will be decided by actual playing. And everybody is playing under the same conditions. Yes, they are different conditions than were in place in the 'before the virus' phase, but the playing field is level for now. I think that's the best solution, and the fairest.

Arguments that there are changes (which could bring advantages or disadvantages) from then to now are not really worth it, imo. Situations change throughout a normal season such that there are advantages and disadvantages anyway. Through injuries and suspensions etc. There is no way of keeping identical circumstances throughout a season. Players become unavailable, managers get sent to the stands, fans chuck stuff onto the pitch etc etc.