West Ham v Sheffield Utd (A) 10:01:2020 KO 20:00 - Match Thread

thornburyiron

Grey that’s what makes the rule frustrating.
Any contact with the ball by hand of an attacking player rules out a goal but for a defender it has to be intentional to be a penalty. So in both instances the advantage is with the defending side.
The rule should be changed so that either handball is handball regardless of intent or intent should be determined.
The “arm was/wasn’t in a natural position” is purely subjective.
I think they should go back to the hand to ball interpretation.

grey_til_I_dye

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:

The rules are a joke

VAR was supposed to sit glaring errors

What happened to the refs on the monitor and use their own judgement

Joke of a rule, and its ruining the season

Sorry, but I don't understand your point. There was no glaring error. There is no scope for judgement in handball leading to a goal. If the officials missed it, that would be an error. The VAR official tonight correctly ruled out our goal on the rules as they are.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

grey_til_I_dye said:

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:

The rules are a joke

VAR was supposed to sit glaring errors

What happened to the refs on the monitor and use their own judgement

Joke of a rule, and its ruining the season

Sorry, but I don't understand your point. There was no glaring error. There is no scope for judgement in handball leading to a goal. If the officials missed it, that would be an error. The VAR official tonight correctly ruled out our gial o the rules as they are.

There is scope, though. You have to decide how far back to go.

grey_til_I_dye

thornburyiron said:

Grey that’s what makes the rule frustrating.
Any contact with the ball by hand of an attacking player rules out a goal but for a defender it has to be intentional to be a penalty. So in both instances the advantage is with the defending side.
The rule should be changed so that either handball is handball regardless of intent or intent should be determined.
The “arm was/wasn’t in a natural position” is purely subjective.
I think they should go back to the hand to ball interpretation.

I disagree I don't think goals should count if they go in off a hand/arm, and I am happy for that to include the build up

You can't have the same rule for pens, or attackers would spend the whole game chipping balls at defenders.

thornburyiron

Grey this was posted earlier and is the official PL guidelines

“Deflections

Premier League players will be allowed extra leeway when it comes to ricocheted handballs.

It is often impossible to avoid contact with the ball if it has deflected off the body of an opponent, team-mate, or even another part of the own player.

So a handball will not be awarded if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from their own head/body/foot or the head/body/foot of another player who is close/nearby. “

So if that is a PL instruction why are the VAR refs ignoring it.

grey_til_I_dye

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

grey_til_I_dye said:

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:

The rules are a joke

VAR was supposed to sit glaring errors

What happened to the refs on the monitor and use their own judgement

Joke of a rule, and its ruining the season

Sorry, but I don't understand your point. There was no glaring error. There is no scope for judgement in handball leading to a goal. If the officials missed it, that would be an error. The VAR official tonight correctly ruled out our gial o the rules as they are.

There is scope, though. You have to decide how far back to go.

Not really in terms of goals. The ball clearly came off Deccers' arm

horshamhammer

Never mind, only Leicester, Man City and Liverpool twice in our next 6. We'll be bottom after that lot.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

grey_til_I_dye said:

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

grey_til_I_dye said:

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:

The rules are a joke

VAR was supposed to sit glaring errors

What happened to the refs on the monitor and use their own judgement

Joke of a rule, and its ruining the season

Sorry, but I don't understand your point. There was no glaring error. There is no scope for judgement in handball leading to a goal. If the officials missed it, that would be an error. The VAR official tonight correctly ruled out our gial o the rules as they are.

There is scope, though. You have to decide how far back to go.

Not really in terms of goals. The ball clearly came off Deccers' arm

Yes, there is. It was earlier in his run.

As I posted earlier, Liverpool scored against Man City after countering on the basis of TAA handling up the other end.

How far do you go back?

Fortuneseeker

Who touched the ball before it hit Declan’s arm?

Lukerz

grey_til_I_dye said:

thornburyiron said:

Grey that’s what makes the rule frustrating.
Any contact with the ball by hand of an attacking player rules out a goal but for a defender it has to be intentional to be a penalty. So in both instances the advantage is with the defending side.
The rule should be changed so that either handball is handball regardless of intent or intent should be determined.
The “arm was/wasn’t in a natural position” is purely subjective.
I think they should go back to the hand to ball interpretation.

I disagree I don't think goals should count if they go in off a hand/arm, and I am happy for that to include the build up

You can't have the same rule for pens, or attackers would spend the whole game chipping balls at defenders.

Equally, defenders will start doing likewise when in the box with strikers.

Yeoldhammer

horshamhammer said:

Never mind, only Leicester, Man City and Liverpool twice in our next 6. We'll be bottom after that lot.

and out the FA cup too. Its going to be sad

mike

grey_til_I_dye said:

Madcap

Each to their onions.

I enjoyed our performance, and am lookingforward to our next game.

I love Deccers, and I know he isn't the sharpest rubber n the pencil case, but for. a PL footballer to be so woefully ignorant of the rules and VAR is embarrassing.

That’s a bit condescending Grey

TheMadcapLaughs

The premier league and var is a nonsense. They have nothing to do with why I (used) to enjoy football. I have avoided football this season but couldn't help myself tonight. Feel like i have been ripped off by Sky and the Premier League. What a waste of hard earned, I really don't know how people go week in week out. HNY to all but will go back to results only, and if we go down....... hey, there's worse things happen at sea.......... :champagne:

OldCastleSwift

horshamhammer said:

Never mind, only Leicester, Man City and Liverpool twice in our next 6. We'll be bottom after that lot.

Currently 22 points from 21 games. Looking at the above, I'm not sure where the points are coming from. With 6 games to go we could realistically be at least 10 points away from the 40 point mark.

Lukerz

Yep, not looking good.

I was really optimistic we could have come away with a 0-1 today with a good, solid performance.

In the end we threw the game away with that terrible bit of play between Martin & Balbuena & an all round toothless attacking display. We may well have got a 0-0 had we not done that, but I wanted us to aim for more.

Not sure playing 5 defenders & Rice/Noble against a team outside the top 5 is going to work. Our ‘flair’ players are not good enough to carry the weight of the team in terms of winning us games.

I genuinely fear we are going to go down.

grey_til_I_dye

mike said:

grey_til_I_dye said:

Madcap

Each to their onions.

I enjoyed our performance, and am lookingforward to our next game.

I love Deccers, and I know he isn't the sharpest rubber n the pencil case, but for. a PL footballer to be so woefully ignorant of the rules and VAR is embarrassing.

That’s a bit condescending Grey

To whom?

alderz

I watched with my mate who is a Southend fan, and I felt a bit bad for meaning, because wow look at them. But also, I feel cross at the harshness of the handball rule (not VAR, but I do feel that VAR emphasises how poor the rule definitions are). He said to me he could understand why I’d be cross this season because our team is underperforming. Under Grant we and the team were deserving of relegation, this feels more like 2003 than then.

sweepy23

Talking of the goal that never was, what I loved was that Rice ran with purpose and no fear.

Too often tonight we had a ball in a good position and players didn’t try to beat their man but opted to go backwards for a lazy cross to go in.

I thought the players had a little more fight tonight but they need to go for it more and believe.

Hamstew

We are in deep trouble.

thornburyiron

I genuinely worry we haven’t got what it takes to get enough points to survive and that we are going to be totally dependent upon there being three teams below us. This might change if we make some good signings but the signs aren’t looking too good on that front. We haven’t got the strength in depth to deal with injuries and we seem to keep getting them.
Interesting stat is that Martin and Roberto between them have made at least three errors resulting in goals. Fabianski has made none so we need a decent back up but appear to be waiting for an injured one to recover before signing him.

EXETERHAMMER

In the spirit, enjoyment and point of football, that goal should have been allowed tonight irrespective of the teams on the pitch

ianbishoplegend

Football has died

claretandbluesky

There seems to be a obvious tweak to be made to the rule. It's clear to see why they didn't want scoring teams to benefit even from an accidental handball but scenarios like today get caught in the rule.

I would suggest the answer is found in the offside rule in that you cannot be offside if the ball is played by the opposing team but you can if it is played by your team. So if Rice plays it to snoddgrass and the ball accidently hits snods arm goal ruled out but if the Sheffield player plays it onto an accidental handball the goal is good. It would be handball in either scenario if the handball was deliberate.

ASLEFshrugged

TheMadcapLaughs said:

The premier league and var is a nonsense. They have nothing to do with why I (used) to enjoy football. I have avoided football this season but couldn't help myself tonight. Feel like i have been ripped off by Sky and the Premier League. What a waste of hard earned, I really don't know how people go week in week out. HNY to all but will go back to results only, and if we go down....... hey, there's worse things happen at sea.......... :champagne:

Because it's football and it's West Ham.

That will never change.

BubblesNeverDies

Thorn, OCS:
"Deflections
Premier League players will be allowed extra leeway when it comes to ricocheted handballs.
It is often impossible to avoid contact with the ball if it has deflected off the body of an opponent, team-mate, or even another part of the own player.
So a handball will not be awarded if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from their own head/body/foot or the head/body/foot of another player who is close/nearby. “

So if that is a PL instruction why are the VAR refs ignoring it.

Grey:
"I love Deccers, and I know he isn't the sharpest rubber n the pencil case, but for. a PL footballer referee to be so woefully ignorant of the rules and VAR is embarrassing."

Fixed it for ya.

Expat_Hammer

If only we were wearing red shirts yesterday :weep:

Slacker

Oh that was hard to take.From the ecstasy of equalising to that horrible sinking feeling and full on volleys of abuse and laughter from the locals.
All part of it I know but that is such a ridiculous rule it ruined the whole night for me.
Truthfully,I couldn’t see where a goal was coming from and had resigned myself to yet another away day defeat.Neither side impressed and If it hadn’t been for Martin’s mistake I don’t think they would’ve scored either.
All in all a tough night.

Bazshuayi

I assume theres a distinction in terms of leeway when the handball is in a no big deal scenario. However, refs/VAR aren't currently going to ignore it when it leads directly to a goal (which it did). So unless that gets tackled then things will continue on the same path

Bazshuayi

Expat_Hammer said:

If only we were wearing red shirts yesterday :weep:

:hmm:

sweepy23

Still angry. I feel more like I do when we lose in the quarters of a cup than a league match.