Hammers ⚒ v Man City - “AND IT’S LIVE”

Kuchinghammer

The first half we were toe-to-toe with them. It was great to see,I loved it. Then Gorbachev told them to close us down in midfield, Fornals looked lost, Wilshere (and other) started to give the ball away, and we caved in at the end. I didn't love that so much, but I still support the team. Always.

Vorselaarhammer

It was a embarrassing expected result..

Their GK was playing DM basically for some of the game, they were so relaxed.

City now have an 21 to 1 goal ratio at the London stadium...

alderz

Ok I’ve had some thinking time, and here are some positives.

1. Fredericks played well apart from crossing

2. Yes, Wilshere looked rusty, but you could see the intention to play through him and when he’s sharpened up I can see him being a good player for us

3. Lanzini and Anderson took up some really good positions, just didn’t quite execute things

4. Haller’s touch reminded me of Andy Carroll at his best (off the chest and laying off instead of flick one), but he was as mobile as Arnie and I am excited about him

thornburyiron

Why should Wilshere be rusty. He trained during the summer and had a full pre season so shouldn’t be any more rusty than the rest of them.
I’m sure that if Pep was our manager he may not necessarily make our players better players but he would sure as hell make sure they worked 100% for 100% of the game as a unit. When we had the ball or they lost it they hunted in packs to get it back. When we lost the ball it was a case of we’ll get it back eventually either as a goal kick or a kick off, sadly mostly the latter.
Pelle and the “coaching” staff should work on making sure we defend as well as attack. It’s one thing saying we always like to play with the ball and attack but it’s another doing something with it.
Haller looks a really good buy but apart from Snodgrass nobody seems capable of putting in a decent cross

thornburyiron

So did Norwich and Villa when they were going forward as they attacked with pace. Hopefully their defences will be generous because ours may well be.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

Wilshere has played very little competitive football over the last year. Yes, he played pre-season, but I don’t think that’s a fair measure of what it’s like to play Man City in a league fixture.

Getting acclimatised to the pace of this league is something I don’t think there’s much preparing for. You just have to experience it. So I’m willing to cut Wilshere a little slack. I think he’ll be good for us if he stays fit.

Whitehorsehammer

A good number of people on here have been critical of Pellegrini’s refusal to change tactics and play a more defensive, get everyone behind the ball game against the “big" clubs.

That for many years has been what West Ham and other clubs have done, scared of the big clubs, lets shut up shop and hope to only loose 1-0. When Pellegrini came in he wanted, and still does, to change that mentality, he wants us to have belief and to play to win, that is the only way you progress to another level. He has largely rebuilt the squad with technically good players. He wasn’t going to change just because we were playing Man City. Yes we lost 0-5 rather than perhaps 0-2 but it was a test against the best. Don’t forget that Pellegrini laid the foundation stones of what Man City are today. Their wealth enables them to buy the best of the best players and they are a number of years ahead of most clubs. But I for one have belief in Pellegrini’s vision and he has my support, certainly for this season.

everhopeful

Vorselaarhammer said:

Their GK was playing DM basically for some of the game, they were so relaxed.

And their GK seemed to be playing in West Ham kit which was a bit sneaky!

baracks_a_hammer

It’s not about everyone behind the ball “defensive type” tactics

It’s about working hard as a collective unit to win the ball back when we lost it which is quite different.

Which we failed to do miserably. As has been the case for many a game under Pelle and is a flaw in his managerial ability IMO.

He was one of a few Man City managers along their journey to where they are now (with their money), not necessarily the key element upon which it was all built.

Sam would have got annihilated if he had delivered a performance like yesterday.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

But Sam would have set up for a 0-0, so then getting thrashed by 5 is a lot harder to stomach.

I think Pelle gets more slack because he’s aiming for something bigger, better and more exciting.

We’re just a long way off at the moment.

baracks_a_hammer

It’s debatable whether Sam would have gone for 0-0 at home. When we played them under Sam a few seasons back it was one of the most electric performances (ironically when Pelle was in charge of city).

Problem is there can never be a property comparison as Pelle has arguably been supported more transfer wise.

jay_in_cpt

Whitehorse, as we are all Hammers fans I'm sure we all support him, whether we like him/approve of him/want him etc...But Its easy to say for this season!, That we can all agree on...Let's give him the season and see where his vision takes us.

Lukerz

Reckon someone should start the Brighton thread so we can look forward to our first proper game

Hamstew

We'll Wilshere has a scan tomorrow according to ex so who knows

MIAHammer

https://talksport.com/football/585245/west-ham-marko-arnautovic-manchester-city/

Maybe that’s why we were so ineffective upfront. We still thought Arnie was playing for us :biggrin:

BubblesNeverDies

So was the penalty for Fabianski not having a foot on/above the goal line or, as I've been hearing, for encroachment by Declan Rice?

grey_til_I_dye

Encroachment. Ref made it clear at the time.

The issue was that following his encroachment he cleared the ball, so affected the outcome.

VAR don't check the keeper's position, that is down to the on-pitch officials, who failed miserably...

BubblesNeverDies

Grey, cheers, the stream I was watching seemed to concentrate on Fabianski. I didn't know that VAR doesn't check the keeper's position.
So if I understand correctly, if Rice hadn't encroached the penalty wouldn't have been retaken?

grey_til_I_dye

Andy Townsend didn't know either, and he was co-comms...

Almost certainly not, as the officials didn't appear to pick up Fab's offence.

If someone who hadn't encroached had cleared the ball it would probably have been OK as well.

Cuz1

If the keeper had put the ball behind for a corner then no VAR apparently

grey_til_I_dye

Cuz

Yeah, encroachment on it's own won't be enough for a retake according to the bumf.

ianbishoplegend

Pellets spent a lot of time looking at his hands yesterday. Like others have said, need some strong leadership. Can we get Pearce back on the sideline?

Yeoldhammer

Apparently Wilshire is injured as well as Anderson...

Lukerz

Ex says both will be checked tomorrow but are both expected to be fit for Brighton. Wilshere was tactical & due to his history; Anderson wanted to come back on.

Lukerz

Fabianski
Fredericks - Balbuena - Diop - Masuaku
Rice - Snodgrass
Anderson - Wilshere - Lanzini
Haller

For Brighton

IronHerb

I've started the Brighton thread.

ASLEFshrugged

BubblesNeverDies said:

So was the penalty for Fabianski not having a foot on/above the goal line or, as I've been hearing, for encroachment by Declan Rice?

It was Rice. He entered the area before the penalty was taken and because he cleared the ball he was regarded as interfering with the second phase of play.

thornburyiron

Had there not been VAR we’d have been praising Declan for being quick to react as encroachment rarely gets picked up.

chicagohammer

Of course, it cannot be proved but I like to think that given that Rice, being the encroaching player actually kicked the ball out of play, the penalty would have been retaken even without VAR, previously, it is probably true that if the keeper saved it, held it or pushed the ball around the post, that any encroachment that occurred was ignored.

At least VAR will put a stop to that.

Encroachment was a pet peeve of mine, many, many successful penalties were granted with attacking players encroaching.

MunichHammer

A question I have been asking myself since the match. The goal which was ruled out. The question was about millimeters apparently. But why? One City Player (could have been Jesus) was way offside when the ball came in and was then passed the ball to score. How can that not be deemes offside? If second phase is enough to have a penalty retaken thenthat surely should have been enough.

And then regarding the two VAR goal decisions - I think that calls which are this close should always be "umpire's call". That means that the second VAR goaö should not have counted whilst the first should have (ignoring the player I mentioned earlier).