Burnley (Away) 14th October 3pm (match thread)

Hammerex

What annoyed me the most about AC, was having been booked by the ref, which
I thought was justified myself, then goes and do exactly the same, just a minute
later. How stupid can you be to do that. ;doh

Vorselaarhammer

Grey I didn’t watch the game so I can’t just the ref performance. ;ok

IronHerb

Attwell was poor throughout although he probably got the Carroll decisions correct. Burnley took it turn to hack into Hernandez and Attwell wasn't smart enough to book one of them.
We fully deserved the 3 points here. Even with 10 men we created the better chances. Really good decision to sub off the ineffective Arnie for Pedro who had a monster 45 minutes.
Strange to sub off Hernandez when Antonio, who had a good game, ran out of steam after 60 minutes. I don't think he is fully fit as this isn't the first time this season he's run out of puff.
We did ride our luck with the Hart pen, which was easier to call on slow mo than real time, and when the ball came back off the post and hit Hart.

Lots more positives than negatives to take out of this game. COYI

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Lukerz said:

Just feels like this season has been a complete waste of time so far.

Oh Luke ;lol

Without sounding like a grumpy old man, believe me a) this is WHUFC, it's what we do b) I'm grateful to be seeing WHUFC in any season, no matter how it goes

;ok

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Huttonhammer said:

Good point when all said and done.
We have some idiotic players and you cannot blame Bilic for their actions .
It just seems that we are our own worst enemy and sendings off like Carroll’s and Arnautovic’s are just pure stupidity and mean we will continue to struggle.

Agree with every word......

(Goes for a lie down)

;biggrin

Expat_Hammer

Oh Luzerz,maybe it because of the length of time I've been supporting the glorious Irons, and after 57 years of going to games you learn to take the rough with the worse ;lol

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

grey_til_I_dye said:

Vorse

Don't think the 2nd was a red for AC. It was a yellow, fair enough, but we've all seen lots of games where refs have held back a deserved 2nd as it would mean sending the player off.

I've no problem if they all stop doing that, but you know that won't happen.

Got to say chief, though the second could've been a straight red all on its own, he goes in from the side at an angle and leading with his arm/elbow with force, forget it was only seconds after the first, id be pretty pipped if one of ours was on the end of something like that, it's dangerous and if the likes of Mane's high boot and Fosters alleged lunge at Chico are deemed red by some then so is that

;ok

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Atwell I think tried to let things go early on, it's really difficult because then a couple of bigger decisions and it looks like you've lost control.

Kouyate could've seen yellow very early on, he applied some common sense and didn't book him, the AC challenges left him with little to no choice imo, that was an Arnie moment for me from Andy and he deserves to be taken to one side and told by Slav he's let the lads down then get his cheque book out and write one for 160k

Also that was a nailed on penalty Hart gave away, I've seen people say he pulled his hands out, so? He hit him with his body, we also got lucky with the post.

Key moment, when 1-0 up if that falls to Chico and not Antonio we win the game imo

alderz

For me, the most frustrating thing about the second yellow isn’t even that he fouled him in that way, it’s that there was literally no point in doing so anyway. What was the best case scenario from there? He flicks it on for nobody to run on to? It was so utterly unnecessary

MIAHammer

WOW! I am surprised how many people on here don't believe that second yellow was worthy of a yellow. How many on here would have agreed if it was the other team and their player was not sent off?
For me, we got lucky that it wasn't a straight red. I agree the first yellow was harsh as he was jumping from a stationary position but the 2nd was as clear as you get get. Running start, then launches himself with arms flailing.
Incidentally, on NBC they showed in slow-mo that Hart pulled his arms away and actually got the ball with his elbow. More luck than judgement but they all agreed the referee got it right.

jay_in_cpt

Mia , not sure any of us are debating the 2nd yellow, the 1st was the 50/50 one IMO
Atwell possibly got those decisions correct although a harsh 1st yellow for me, however his overall performance was definetly below par for me ;ok

grey_til_I_dye

jay

Not sure the first was even 50/50.

If Carrol was entitled to challenge for the ball (and imo he was) then I don't see what he did wrong, or what else he could have done.

jay_in_cpt

I think a warning could have done, but as said see why it was a harsh yellow....
Whereas Michael Oliver today could have easily sent off 1 or 2 Brighton players , which could have aided us, that's sadly the way it goes ... But think we can agree, Atwell was poor....even Burnley fans must be seething with the lack of penalty.... ;ok

IronHerb

I think we are winning over Joe Hart. For the first time this season he walked over and handed his shirt to a fan. He had lots of support, especially as the home fans booed him, in what was his busiest game for us.
Nice one Joe. ;clap

NEoldiron

Reading these posts while currently on a cycling holiday on Mallorca and trying not to let AC's stupidity spoil it ;biggrin
However, I think, as do some other posters, that it could be a blessing in disguise that will force Bilic to play a different setup. Will he start Sakho, the in-form player?

AdMeus_CaputFilius

alderz said:

For me, the most frustrating thing about AC the second yellow isn’t even that he fouled him in that way, it’s that there was literally no point in doing so anyway. What was the best case scenario from there? is he more often than not flicks it on for nobody to run on to.? It was so utterly unnecessary

;ok

chicagohammer

For me, I think that the ref could have given AC a warning for the first one and told him to cool off, if he had done so, and I am of course speculating here, but I think it very possible that the second challenge would not have occurred.

However

if I were the ref who had had a word with AC and asked him cool down and then he had continued to do what he did, when he did, I would not have hesitated in giving him a straight red.

In real life though, having issued a yellow card for the first challenge, I do not think it reasonable that the ref could have excused the second with a word in his ear as it was far more egregious - I get that AC felt hard done by but he simply lost it and gave the Ref no choice.

Just my tuppence worth



;ok

Moojor

I caught a bit motd2 last night and it was showing Newcastle v Southampton. Newcastle player, already on a yellow, slides in, studs up and takes out the Southampton player. Ref has a word with him instead of second yellow.

NEoldiron

Mooj, the one consistent thing about refs is their inconsistency ;wink

Kuchinghammer

What a difference Obiang makes. He can tackle and he can pass, which brings Lanzini and Chicarito into the game. Arnie being removed at HT improved the team: he rates as my WOS player this year so far.
For the first time this year, we looked to have the makings of a real football team ;ok

Lukerz

The players did very well. I was impressed with Fonte, who has continued to get better since that horror show at Southampton. Shame him and Reid lost Wood for the equaliser, but it was a very good cross into a terrible area to defend. All in all the back four did very well. We look far more solid and it's atually comforting that we've played a back four in the last two games and still look as solid as we did with a back 3/5, which is a vast improvement on the first few games.

I think playing Lanzini in a midfield 3, as opposed to a specialised No.10, is his best position to allow us to dictate a game. I would love to see him, Obiang and Kouyate in the middle three and then go with Antonio on the right, Chicharito or Sakho through the middle and Arnie or Masuaku on the left. That way Manu can link the midfield to the front three and I think him and Obiang together have the potential to really open sides up further up the pitch.

It's a shame we don't have one more wide option because, as is being shown, now that Arnie is struggling, we don't really have a back-up option. Ayew and Masuaku are not left midfielders, wingers.

Going forward, I think this side looks very well balanced:

Hart
Zabaleta - Fonte - Reid - Cresswell
Obiang - Kouyate - Lanzini
Antonio - Chicharito - Arnautovic

Adrian, Ogbonna, Masuaku, Noble, Ayew, Carroll, Sakho

jay_in_cpt

I totally got why Slav replaced Marko at HT...
I actually thought he had his best 45 min cameo so far this season, albeit that didn't take much!...

welovethehammers

I still can't get over our move where Obiang backheeled it with Lanzini setting up Antonio who tried to curl it past the keeper. That was fantastic football. I'd love to see more of that! If it went in it reminded me a bit of the goal we scored when Zola was managed (believe it was Scott Parker into Di Michele who set up Carlton Cole to curl it past the Wigan goalkeeper).

ASLEFshrugged

welove - the above three plus Noble. The no.3 who started the move was Ilunga, whatever happened to him?



That is precisely why I want to see Hernandez up front with Antonio, Lanzini and Arnie supporting

Vorselaarhammer

Zabaleta: "I think Andy's challenges were a bit nasty. We were 1-0 up and we need to be a bit more clever in these situations."

West Ham manager Slaven Bilic is set to fine Andy Carroll two weeks wages, following his red card against Burnley.

On a positive...

Joe Hart has more Premier League assists than Mesut Ozil this season.

Yeoldhammer

Fined wages talk about cracking out the whip.

Pearces_Left_Foot

He has been fined half a weeks wages around 45K, as that is club policy as it was two yellows, still more than most people earn in a year .

eskimoking

Deserves it imo. Was reckless and cost us 2 points. The first shouldn’t have been a yellow yet I can’t even begin to blame the ref because of how stupid he was for the second.

MrsGrey

Lukerz said:

Atwell, like Mike Jones, has always been pretty abject. He's yo-yo'd between leagues and whenever he does officiate in the Premier League, it'll always be Stoke-Watford, Burnley-West Ham etc. Never will he officiate a game of great importance in the eye of the media and football world.

He's in charge of the whistle next week at Newcastle (v Palace). ;ok