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Comments
The vote was advisory. The result in the end had to be voted on in the commons.
I could produce reams of info, but just look it up for yourself.
The difference is now that the truth, (suppressed by the RW media) has come out about the likely long term effects of Brexit, and how isolated we will soon become. Look how Boris was humiliated last week at the G7. The long term economic difficulties we may now face were not spelled out before the vote. And there has been an admission that control of our border post Brexit will not neccesarily bring about the falls in inward net migration that UKIP et al voted for.
My point is that the remain camp must be mobilised before article 20 is put into place, and the conservatives will be whipped into place to support May. This could be an historic vote if people get organised.
I would just like to see something truly radical happen for a change, and if JC does not support a way to support it, then he should be replaced afterwards IMO.
My union backed Leave along with RMT, Unite and others.
I believe that there will be a positive bonfire of workers rights once we come out of the EU, and if the Tories remain unchecked. There are 2 things at work here - the Tory right and the Media barons seeing Brexit as a way to push workers rights back to pre 1930's levels making any industrial action illegal,(especially those affecting infrastructure and transport !) and a steady dilution of the NHS. - It is already happening in my opinion. I actually believe that we are in the midst of a sea change in politics, no longer defined by Party political history. In or out of Europe is fundementally more important at this stage. We really want to come out of the EU and chance our arm trading with the rest of the world ?? With people like Boris ,Liam Fox and David Davies as representative of our skill base in place ??
A trade deal with a newly protectionist USA for example ??
We may be the worlds 5th largest economy, but we have built that over the last few decades of being in the EU and with world renowned companies based here as a result of the EU membership.
It has worked both ways, and we successfully kept ourselves out of the Euro. We were in a perfect place to reform from within, despite the rage over asylum seekers etc.
That problem is world wide , endemic due to climate change, sub saharan wars , poverty, disparity in the worlds economies etc, and will be with us for the next couple of decades - whether we are in the EU or not.
The Tory party has always pushed back against workers rights. Once out of the EU, they will quickly set about rolling back protections and rights as far and as fast as they can.
Anyone who thinks thinks otherwise is (no matter what the PM or any other Tory says) closing their eyes to the lessons of history and refusing to see the reality that is staring them in the face.
They'll try (as they always do) to brand it as good for the economy and growth, with the (false) implication that all will benefit.
By pre 1930,'s I was clearly referring to 1925
;biggrin
It is my view that whoever can prevent the brexit or remain vote fragmenting least will do very well, and can Labour prevent a diluting of their vote to the Lib Dems? can the tories prevent UKIP splitting the strong brexit vote? There will be shocks and they will come fast and some big names well may lose their seats. In my town the Tory MP has won since before I would have been able to vote, yet it was a strong remain town producing a decisive remain vote. I think our MP may for the first time ever get a little worried.
1) large Tory majority. Corbyn resigns, the Labour MPs do not allow a left wing candidate to stand like they did with Corbyn, a moderate/Blairite/soft Tory leader elected who wins the approval of Murdoch and the rest of the media.
2) small Tory majority. Corbyn resigns etc. but her opponents in the Tory party are still on her case and possibly calling for her resignation for failing to deliver a big enough win
3) Tories lose. May resigns.
May has announced there aren't going to be any TV debates, that makes her look scared to discuss the issues.
A high 40% of the country voted to stay, for me this would actually be a situation where I would vote for a 1 idea party.
Even if they lose there will still be a party with some of the strong ideals to fight for in the Parliament.
50% of the Tories want Exit / Labour is a Mess (+ unions like Exit) / SNP is a 1 idea Party / UKIP is a 1 idea party.
We need one Party that supports the 40%....
And I think baracks summed it up very well with this post.
"The general election will be about the "type" of brexit not brexit happening v not IMO"
The Lib Dems will focus on winning back constituencies where the Remain vote was strong that they lost in 2010 and 2015 or where they traditionally come second. They're not going to have much success trying to win in constituencies where they've not had much support before.
Having won Richmond Park back they'll be aiming at the other seats in the leafier bits of South West London and out into Surrey, Sussex, etc. Who knows they might even win Maidenhead (53.9% Remain) and then Theresa May will be out!
And the country answered "Not you, mate".
What we actually need when not talking about a 1 subject vote is Labour to sort themselves out.
SNP / UKIP / Tories are the only winning parites at the moment. Two Nationalist and the Tories... ;weep
Oh and Yvette Cooper just called May a liar because a) she said there wouldn't be an early election and b) because she says that parliament is blocking Brexit despite 3/4 of the Commons and 2/3 of the Lords voting for Article 50.
Tears before bedtime....
Of course politicians will take advantage of their opposition's weakness but I think it's unhealthy because you have to fit in campaigning, raising awareness about voter registration/importance in voting in some constituencies, tackle voter fatigue etc. I guess this might all come across as kind of academic but I think it does matter because I think this contributes to people viewing politics with such disdain.
The EU did not exist in 1975, we voted to continue membership of the Common Market and EEC - and actually that referendum was not legally binding either but was agreed on face value to be the will of the British people whichever way it went and the final say - as the EU stay/leave Referendum was. The 1975 vote was supposed to be a mutual trading group - I don't remember anything being said back then about signing away out sovereignty, allowing free movement of people across boarders, creating an unelected commission to dictate our laws etc. (if there had been I believe it would have been a no vote). Those things came about through successive Government (on all sides) signing ever more binding agreements and treaty's without the consent of the British people.
Could it actually be done in time?
There's an assumption of deemed consent, unless you think every single decision, with all the relevant small print, has to either be part of a manifesto commitment at a GE, or put to a referendum? In which case, no doubt, you'll be all in favour of Parliament (at the very least) having a say on the small print of the Brexit negotiations, as they proceed.
Added to which, while some of the agreement were 'ever more binding' (not quite sure exactly what that means- surely an agreement is either binding or not?) some were to opt out or secure derogations. So perhaps could be called ever less binding ;hmm
I personally feel that most Europeans would be happier with the principle ideas of that version rather than what exists today; I think most people in Europe think of themselves as being French or German or Italian etc rather than being European, but that doesn't seem to be the way the EU wants to head.