The 'couldn't think where else to put this' and decided it didn't merit a new thread thread

MrsGrey

OldCastleSwift said:

As the Bilic thread is closed, thought I'd leave this here:

dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5184483/Slaven-Bilic-Im-not-broken-man-Im-ready-again.html#ixzz51N7hfjht

Interesting read. Remains a very classy guy.

Will be the guest on Goals on Sunday next week ;ok

buffybegood

English cricket doesn't merit much, let alone its own thread. Ashes gone, 3-0 so far with an innings defeats, a 10 wicket defeat and a loss by 120 runs.

Yeoldhammer

Same old England. Two batsman can't carry you every innings.

Vorselaarhammer

When your best player gets done for GBH and currently playing Hobbit cricket....

Bazshuayi

I've looked at the Griezmann article on the BBC website a couple of times now and have to admit its irritated me that he has had to apologize for going to a party as a Harlem Globetrotter

So... If a black man goes to a fancy dress party, whites his face and goes as David Beckham would white people (outside of those that are racist anyway) have an issue with that?

If this is too sensitive a topic for the site then I'll expect it to be deleted (without any issue)

grey_til_I_dye

Baz

I'd say if you are part of a community that has suffered prejudice for a prolonged period of time, you get more rights to be sensitive.

'Look, I've made myself look like a black man. Isn't that funny?'

No, it is crass, and insensitive. imo, at least.

chicagohammer

IMO, There is a fine line as it depends, like many things on intent.

If someone wants to go to a costume party as a Harlem globetrotter, that is perfectly fine but I do not see why he neccessarily feels that he needs to “Black” up for it.

In the same way, kids have dressed up as Red Indians, Shepards or even The Three Wise Men for generations, rarely is any attempt made to change the skin color - there is no need for it

In theatre it is deemed inappropriate to “black” up for a part and in essence I agree with the principle, however I do understand that there are times when the available parts cannot be filled without someone being asked to play a role.

Ben Kingsley famously played Gandhi, and there are many articles out there advocating that he should never have been given the role, the problem I have with that is that no-one can realistically deny that he was brilliant and totally made the role his own.

In theatre or film, at least you are playing a deliberate role that is essential to the story being told, it is not a parody or an attempt to extract humor for the sake of it.

alderz

It’s right he should apologise. There is no need to do it, it was OBVIOUSLY going to offend, and it is at best insensitive. I have made it through more years than Greizman without ever feeling the need to wear blackface. There’s no excuse.

Also, the counter argument is dangerous, imo. “If a black person did x”. Doesn’t matter. We’re talking about Greizman not this hypothetical.

PrestonHammer

Except Robert Downey Jr playing a "blacked up" character called Kirk Lazarus in Tropic Thunder.

alderz

Because Hollywood never does anything questionable...?

ASLEFshrugged

Robert Downey Jnr playrd Kirk Lazarus, a white actor who "blacked up" to play the part of Sergeant Lincoln Osiris

Cuz1

If your going to a party/ fancy dress as a globe trotter you should be able to black up without fear of upsetting anyone it’s a fact they were black/ mixed raced basketball players I just think pc goes a little over the top sometimes and I speak from experience in 1963 my uncle and a few mates formed a football club in Nottingham called Clifton all whites, in the 90s they were asked to change the name to Clifton united because the black community could be offended, the chairman of the club refused citing the reason they were called all whites was because they played in all white and that they had brought through black players who had made it professionally ie jenas, Chris fairclogh, Pedro Richards Bowery, Benjamin to name but a few so it wasn’t a racist thing they won in the end but another over the top pc brigade thort

grey_til_I_dye

Sorry, cuz, but the idea that

you should be able to black up without fear of upsetting anyone

seems bizarre to me.

I can't see how you aren't going to upset many people by doing something like that.

It has nothing to do with PC (as so few, if any, of these things do, despite the claims.)

If people aren't prepared to live their lives without concerning themselves as to whether their actions are going to upset or hurt others, then I can only assume it is because they are utterly selfish and thoughtless.

Cuz1

grey_til_I_dye said:

Sorry, cuz, but the idea that

you should be able to black up without fear of upsetting anyone

seems bizarre to me.

I can't see how you aren't going to upset many people by doing something like that.

It has nothing to do with PC (as so few, if any, of these things do, despite the claims.)

If people aren't prepared to live their lives without concerning themselves as to whether their actions are going to upset or hurt others, then I can only assume it is because they are utterly selfish and thoughtless.

And I’m sorry but we have to agree to disagree I’ve got mixed race grandkids and son in law and got no problems with that it is to play a part not to hurt someone or offend them

IronHerb

There have been Latino and White Globetrotters.

grey_til_I_dye

Cuz

I have no doubt that Griezman had no intention of hurting or offending anyone.
I'm also certain that he offended or upset a lot of people when they saw what he had done.

Just because he didn't intend offence doesn't mean offence wasn't caused, nor does it make it all right.

Nor, in the end, does it matter whether or not you or I are or aren't all right with it.

We aren't the group who are likely to be offended by it.

TwistandShout

Bazshuayi said:

I've looked at the Griezmann article on the BBC website a couple of times now and have to admit its irritated me that he has had to apologize for going to a party as a Harlem Globetrotter

So... If a black man goes to a fancy dress party, whites his face and goes as David Beckham would white people (outside of those that are racist anyway) have an issue with that?

If this is too sensitive a topic for the site then I'll expect it to be deleted (without any issue)

I totally agree Baz. People just love to be offended these days. Can't do anything without being labeled 'racist' or 'sexist' or whatever.

Cuz1

Fair enough but my point is why the group which we are not part of offended when he was just portraying a role

MrsGrey

TwistandShout said:

Can't do anything without being labeled 'racist' or 'sexist' or whatever.

That's a ridiculous comment, really.

Of course you can do things without being labelled....

grey_til_I_dye

Cuz1

Well, you could read their reactions, to see if that helps to explain it, or you could ask some of them, I guess.

Tiwst, yeah, isn't it a nuisance when you have to give thought to how other people might react to your behaviour?

Cor, what have we come to, eh?

Next they'll be wanting to move in next door.

Yeoldhammer

He harms his own case doing it anyway, the team and sport might be dominated by black athletes but that doesn't mean there are not white athletes who play for the Harlem Globetrotters or Basketball in general. I don't see why he needs to 'blackface' to portray a basket ball player ?

MrsGrey

One explanation of why it was a stupid thing to do and why some people are upset with it:

"Sad to see this from one of my favourite players," he wrote. "But our skin is not a costume to wear for 'fun'. People struggle through life just for having this skin so it should not be worn for entertainment purposes.

"I think it's an honest mistake from him but it’s still not right."

Agree or disagree, but that's one of the reasons why people don't like what he did.

'Blackface' has a history - and that history partly explains why white people painting their faces black as a joke is not seen as particularly hilarious by many (black and white alike).

Again, agree or disagree, but have an informed opinion ;ok

thornburyiron

I was picking up a click and collect parcel from a local major department store on Friday but forgot to take id so couldn’t collect. They said I’d have to come back as id is required. I said fair enough, my fault, I’ll send the wife in when she’s up here tomorrow.
The woman behind me in the queue said I was disgustingly sexist and she’d found my comments offensive and degrading to women.
I asked her what on Earth she was on about and told her to mind her own business as my wife loves shopping and it wouldn’t be a problem.

ASLEFshrugged

You know what makes me laugh; white middle/old aged men complaining that they can't say anything anymore because someone might take offence.

Poor little hard-done-by things......

Moojor

If at any point in time your fancy dress requires you paint you skin colour anything other than that of mythical or fantasy people/creatures, e.g. the undead, orcs, witches etc you are doing fancy dress wrong.

It has nothing to do with being PC and everything to do with groups of people being treated horrendously throughout history based on the colour of their skin and you making that a bit of a joke is not acceptable.

MrsGrey

Thorn, just because someone said it, doesn't make it true.

You can't (imo) dismiss the validity of much of the criticism of sexist behaviour just because one person has perhaps formed a unique interpretation of what constitutes sexism, or has rushed to judgement on insufficient information or without adequate thought.

SuzanneClaret

Oh... the.. its ok to touch that woman's bum on the tube, my wife loves it when I do that... defense

Some women are just soooo sensitive these days..

;doh

thornburyiron

I'm not dismissing the validity of anything. If you think that my saying the wife will collect it is sexist then that's up to you. I was just commenting on what was said to me and I have absolutely no idea why she said it because I can't see anything offensive whatsoever in what I said. My wife does like shopping and if I don't have to go then I'm fine with that.
I've not said anything about touching women's bums so I don't see what that has anything to do with it. She claimed to find it offensive that I'd suggested my wife collect the item which in fact was for her in the first place.

NEoldiron

Thorn, if you have quoted exactly what you told the shop assistant, then maybe it was the use of the words "send the wife" that upset the woman behind you.
Nothing wrong with it, it's only an expression, but maybe she was looking to be offended.

TheMadcapLaughs

Thorn, I don`t think any of us can accurately gauge the validity of the (non gender specific) persons complaint about your behaviour, tone and latent sexual aggressiveness until judgement has been passed by Lady Brady. Until judgement has been passed I think it would be wise for you to stay indoors for not only your own protection but for the protection and peace of mind of your local community. Far be it for me to pre-empt Lady Bradys judgement but imo you appear to walk a very fine line in your use of provocative language and I hope that this will be a lesson to you.