The 'couldn't think where else to put this' and decided it didn't merit a new thread thread

alderz

The whole debate is so familiar with the whole 'taking a knee' thing in the states at the moment. The whole point of a free country and freedom of political expression is that people can choose. To be lambasted for not following the uniform behaviour is a far bigger slap in the face to those who died for freedom than someone not wearing a pin on their coat.

chicagohammer

I think there is room for further thought/discussion on the choice of wearing a poppy as an individual and the obligation to wear one when representing an institution.

James Corbyn may choose not to wear one when walking his dog but I do think it odd that he would choose not to do so when actually attending a remembrance service when in his pubic role as leader of a significant political party.

Likewise a newsreader when in their role as a front person for their network.

To choose not to wear one in such circumstances does not, in my opinion, constitute in itself a slap in the face of those who fought, but strikes me as a selfish “look at me” action.

My assumption is that the vast majority of people from all walks of life truly do recognize the sacrifice given by those who fought for our current freedoms and I struggle to understand the objection.

The difference with the “taking the knee” action here in the states, is that it is an attempt to highlight that all is not well with current society, that the shining city on the hill is pretty tarnished when you get up close, the idea being that action highlighting the fact just may result in actions being taken by those in authority to make things better

Just my tuppence worth


;ok

MrsGrey

chicago, the issue was more to do with whether Corbyn would wear a white poppy instead (as he had done before) which is equally symbolic of remembrance, but goes wider than the red poppy which is only in remembrance of the British Armed forces and those who fought alongside them. The ITV newsreader made clear that she thought it inappropriate to favour one charity (Royal British Legion) over any other (because she had already decided not to wear symbols of any charities in her professional role, although privately she supported any number of them).

The first part of your post, above, again seems to me to raise the issue of poppies used in wreaths etc at Armistice Day ceremonies, and those pinned to the lapel to show you support the RBL Poppy Appeal. The line has imo become blurred.

Finally, I think it absolutely wrong to expect or require anyone to wear a symbol when 'representing an institution'. So I disagree with you fundamentally on your first sentence. That's rather where + why the debate started

grey_til_I_dye

chicago

To choose not to wear one in such circumstances does not, in my opinion, constitute in itself a slap in the face of those who fought, but strikes me as a selfish “look at me” action.

For me, that highlights the point that the wearing of a poppy has become politicised. Why should not wearing one be anything other than a person's choice? Why should it garner disapproval or comment?

I can't see that there is anything to suggest that those who do not wear poppies put any less value on the sacrifice made by men and women of the services or that the wearing of one proves that the wearer is sincere in those feelings.

Wearing a poppy used to be one way of marking respect. Now, it seems that failing to wear one suggests a lack of respect, and I think that devalues its symbolism.

chicagohammer

A couple of ripostes

My point is when an institution makes a reasonable request, key word, reasonable, and you choose not to do so, then it is you that is making the statement, many institutions require you to wear a symbol, be it a badge, a company logo, uniform or at least abide to a dress code.

The idea behind those symbols is that as a representative of the organization, it is beholden upon you to behave in a manner that represents the values of that organization.

Note that reasonable is my bar. It would not be reasonable for an institution to ask you to reflect support for topics that are widely considered to be strongly held personal beliefs, such as abortion rights, capital punishment or religion

Extreme examples to be sure but a West Ham player cannot assert their freedom and rights and insist to play in a red shirt, no soldier can appear on parade in business casual etc etc.

So the newreader in question, in my mind did choose to make the issue all about her and turned it into a “look at me” moment because in my mind, the request to wear a poppy as a front person on a national network channel is a reasonable one as, once again, I operaate under the impression that the general population do support the fallen, even if they choose not to wear a symbolic poppy, and the notion of remembrance will also presumably be core to that organizations values

The example of Sienna Miller is very different as she was appearing as an individual on a late night talk show and as such should be able to do so without wearing a poppy and be free of any disapproving comments.

My tuppence has turned into sixpence







;ok

MrsGrey

chicago, just to clarify... I don't think there was any question of the newsreader being asked by the network to wear one. It was just that when she appeared without one, she was roundly abused by the public. ;ok

On the matter of dress codes, logos on unforms etc, I don't see that as the same thing at all. And so I must (sadly) dispute that a request to wear a poppy symbol is 'reasonable'. I actually think it is unreasonable.

And as an addition to your point referencing 'strongly held personal beliefs' .... I think it quite evident that many people have strongly held personal beliefs which lead them to reject the poppy, but still respect the sacrifice of those who were killed in the service of their country. See James MacClean, https://www.wiganathletic.com/news/2014/november/statement-regarding-james-mcclean/ Harry Leslie Smith (WW2 Raf vet), https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/08/poppy-last-time-remembrance-harry-leslie-smith
Ben Griffin (ex SAS/Para)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/never-again-anti-war-veterans-to-carry-white-poppy-wreath-to-cenotaph-9833246.html

McHammer

http://www.kitsforyou.club/best-seller/west-ham-united-home-shirt-2017-18.html

Anyone know if this is a legit site for buying shirts? Maybe there is a catch like fifty quid postage but cant see it

MrsGrey

;hmm Lot of grammar mistakes etc in their 'Shipping' information. Looks a bit dodgy?

Says free UK delivery on orders over £42.

BUT - I can't find out where they ship from. You could be looking at having to pay customs charges on top of that....

TwistandShout

Address: 15459 Dupont Ave, Chino, CA 91710

Also none of their 'follow us' buttons link to any social media accounts.

;hmm id stay clear personally

McHammer

Thanks all. It popped up on my facebook

grey_til_I_dye

There is an increasing amount of fraudulent ads on social media.

People need to remind themselves of simple safety rules.

Bloke you don't know in a pub offers you a good deal on a phone, only 50 quid.

Give him the money and he'll bring you the phone tomorrow.

No one would do it.

Same bloke on Facebook...

Moojor

If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

MrsGrey

The thing to remember about Facebook is they vet nobody, they make no effort to see if people advertising stuff are legit, they also are (despite protestations to the contrary) happy to let pretty much anything go because their business model is built on 'more traffic' = more advertising and/or more data = more revenue.

Bazshuayi

So, are you trying to tell me the 500 'Bilic Out' mugs I ordered via Facebook won't in fact be posted to me now? ;puzzled

Hamstew

Yo!

Was watching WWE at Brighton on Thursday night. Who here knows HHH?

PrestonHammer

Could Everton be in trouble?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41878954

SuzanneClaret

Grey

I’m loving the 606 Twitter feed ;lol

grey_til_I_dye

I find it a welcome distraction in troubled times. ;biggrin

TheMadcapLaughs

Bazshuayi said:

So, are you trying to tell me the 500 'Bilic Out' mugs I ordered via Facebook won't in fact be posted to me now? ;puzzled

No, don`t worry Baz, they`re on their way. We don`t do refunds, and good luck with the campaign by the way.

NEoldiron

MrsG- that's cruel ;lol

Bazshuayi

Actually they were delivered today! So Ha!

Bazshuayi

Now to step up the campaign with some final adjustments....

OldCastleSwift

Meanwhile, in Australia, our batsmen are getting undone by a young leg-spinner.

Sounds worringly familiar...

grey_til_I_dye

We've got a thunderstorm here this morning. Even though it is midday, it is very dark.

Put me in mind of the many, many times over 4 years I spent cycling to Forest Hill in the dark and the tipping wet, to catch a train to Whyteleafe South, and cycle up a proper steep hill, in the tipping wet and the dark, to get to work, with the enticing prospect of a day full of difficult pupils, and the reverse fixture to come that evening.

And I don't miss it at all.

OldCastleSwift

This is a weird feature on the OS ;lol

https://whufc.com/news/articles/2017/november/08-november/toni-martinezs-motivational-spotify-playlist

IronHerb

Don't know if you have seen the new TUI advert but the soundtrack is the basis of the Lanzini chant (Ain't Nobody).
I have been chastised by Mrs IH, on several occasions for suddenly bursting into song when it comes on, but I just can't help it.

All together now -

;quaver Ain't nobody like Lanzini
Makes me happy
Plays the West Ham way
;quaver

alderz

That playlist is the main reason I never became a footballer

grey_til_I_dye

I watched a BBC clip recently, where they were interviewing people at a spooky Halloween event.

One of the teenagers involved put the experience rather eloquently, I felt.

That was bare scary.

Bare.

Bare everything, innit?

MrsGrey

;bowdown for 'everything'.

McHammer

Aww granpa trev and granpa billy