The Arnie situation - one thread to rule them all...

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  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    thorn

    Sorry to hear about your brother.

    Where did you see about the apology?
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited January 2019
    thornburyiron said:

    He’s apparently apologised for not being up for it

    The apology has been mentioned in the press (but without any sources/confirmation from anyone official) BUT the only place I've seen an apology referred to so far (Grauniad) says
    Arnautovic said sorry to the rest of West Ham’s squad after training on Friday for pushing for a move.
    Nothing about him not giving his all in training, or not wanting to play, or not being 'up for it'.

    As we have seen before, when he's been subbed, often the player and the manager have different views. There's nothing to say this isn't the same thing. Arnie could be champing at the bit to play, but it's the manager's judgement that he's not in the right frame of mind. We don't know what that's based on.

    imo, too many people are too ready to believe the worst with little foundation apart from speculation and rumour.
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    If he was giving it his all in training why would Pelle believe he wasn’t in the right frame of mind to play. There has to be something in it.
  • imagelostimagelost
    Has he gone yet ;yercoat
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    Has Pelle said that?

    I haven't read it if he did.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited January 2019
    If your job was maybe/probably (but you're not sure) going to require you to move to the other side of the world within a week, don't you think you'd be a bit preoccupied too. What about the kids' school. Selling the house/terminating your lease. Moving your wife/partner. Finding somewhere for them to stay. A new school? Lots of decisions to be made and things to organise.

    I'd be a wreck, tbh, hardly able to walk straight, never mind think straight. I'd not be able to sleep - all sorts racing through my mind. I'd be up to my elbows in lists of things to do. ;poormf

    Maybe you are a lot more sanguine
  • MoojorMoojor
    MrsGrey said:

    If your job was maybe/probably (but you're not sure) going to require you to move to the other side of the world within a week, don't you think you'd be a bit preoccupied too. What about the kids' school. Selling the house/terminating your lease. Moving your wife/partner. Finding somewhere for them to stay. A new school? Lots of decisions to be made and things to organise.

    I'd be a wreck, tbh, hardly able to walk straight, never mind think straight. I'd not be able to sleep - all sorts racing through my mind. I'd be up to my elbows in lists of things to do. ;poormf

    Maybe you are a lot more sanguine

    When you're earning 200k+ a week, you can afford for other people to sort all of that stuff out for you.
  • HamstewHamstew
    thornburyiron said:

    Unless he’s being sold within the next couple of days, in my view he should be doing what he’s paid very well to do and that’s play football. He’s apparently apologised for not being up for it but that doesn’t cut it for me.
    My brother who has MND was told this week that he only has a few months left. I asked him how he took the news and he said on the chin because it is what it is. I could understand his losing focus.

    Really sorry to hear about this thorn. This really sucks.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    Mooj, yes. But you still have to make the decisions, give instructions, check they are getting on with it, be available to answer questions etc. It takes up a lot of head space still, even when you have minions. ;ok
  • Cuz1Cuz1
    Tell me about it lol
  • claretandblueskyclaretandbluesky
    I can't see too many differences with the Payet situation in as much as is our best player and under contract. Player gets an offer and decides he wants to go, agent states it's a fair offer and we cannot realistically do anything about it so tells us to sell. Arnie is getting more sympathy for some reason however.

    I think it indicates what may be already the situation with clubs of our size that the contract means nothing and never again will we be able to say no, so really only the fee is negotiable rather than us choosing to sell or not. yet with payet and possibly with Arnie ( yet to be published ) we may end up having that dictated to a large degree also.

    I have a lot of sympathy for the manager and the board here as there are not many businesses you invest in for the future and then can have your investment thrown up in the air against your wishes. A bit like a printers investing in some machinery to give them the edge and encourage success but once it shows it's worth another business turns up insisting you sell it to them for their business and you have to.
  • claretandblueskyclaretandbluesky
    Anderson, Diop, Rice..... how long will we have them?
  • EXETERHAMMEREXETERHAMMER
    I think all three of these could at some point go to clubs doing better than us. Different to the Arnie situation who is going for the money.
  • claretandblueskyclaretandbluesky
    I guess it's as it's ever been. Not too long ago we had Frank Lampard Jnr, Rio Ferdinand, Joe Cole, Michael Carrick and Jermaine defoe all in the same side.
  • Cuz1Cuz1
    And glen Johnson
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    The only solution is a cap on, not only wages, but an absolute (not relative) limit on transfer fees that include salaries, agent fees (excuse me while I go and vomit) and any kind of manipulation of the actual cost to the buying club.

    Perhaps in some way the draft system in NFL could be adapted to the EPL.

    I don't have the answers but there definitely has to be a change in the system, otherwise it's just the same clubs winning everything year in year out.

    Only 6 different winners (and if you take out the Leicester fluke), just 5, in the 25 years of the EPL.

    1993 Manchester United
    1994 Manchester United
    1995 -Blackburn Rovers
    1996 Manchester United
    1997 Manchester United
    1998 Arsenal
    1999 Manchester United
    2000 Manchester United
    2001 Manchester United
    2002 Arsenal
    2003 Manchester United
    2004 -Arsenal
    2005 Chelsea
    2006 Chelsea
    2007 Manchester United
    2008 Manchester United
    2009 Manchester United
    2010 Chelsea
    2011 Manchester United
    2012 Manchester City
    2013 -Manchester United
    2014 Manchester City
    2015 Chelsea
    2016 *-Leicester City
    2017 -Chelsea
    2018 -Manchester City

    This wasn't the case when it was the old FA Div 1 to Div 4. Last 25 years:
    1967 Manchester United
    1968 Manchester City
    1969 *Leeds United
    1970 Everton
    1971 Arsenal
    1972 *Derby County
    1973 Liverpool
    1974 Leeds United
    1975 -Derby County
    1976 Liverpool
    1977 Liverpool
    1978 *-Nottingham Forest
    1979 Liverpool
    1980 Liverpool
    1981 -Aston Villa
    1982 Liverpool
    1983 Liverpool
    1984 Liverpool
    1985 Everton
    1986 Liverpool
    1987 -Everton
    1988 Liverpool
    1989 Arsenal
    1990 -Liverpool
    1991 Arsenal
    1992 -Leeds United

    Oh, hold on, let me check those figures ..................... ;biggrin
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    The draft system works because apart from the NFL there isn't anywhere else for players to go. It wouldn't work for the Premier League because there are plenty of other options.

    Ditto with salary and transfer fee capping.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    claretandbluesky said:

    A bit like a printers investing in some machinery to give them the edge and encourage success but once it shows it's worth another business turns up insisting you sell it to them for their business and you have to.

    Not very like.

    Because a person isn't 'some machinery'.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    A cap on agents fees is impossible.

    You can't regulate what a private individual charges for their professional services to another private individual.
  • PengemanPengeman
    The headlines says "West Ham set to FINE Marko Arnautovic mega £200,000 for not playing v Bournemouth". If correct, Arnie is on strike https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/754459/West-Ham-news-Marko-Arnautovic-fine-transfer-news-latest-Bournemouth-team
    We should get rid of him ASAP before he poisons the squad. I doubt that he will stay anywhere for long.
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    edited January 2019
    Aslef, trust you to provide the logic ;lol ;ok

    MrsGrey, ok leave out the agents' fees ;biggrin
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    That Daily Star article sounds a bit iffy.

    £200,000 fine - for what.

    That's (allegedly) more than 2 weeks wages. He's trained all week, as confirmed by the manager.

    So what's the fine for?
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    edited January 2019
    If true it can only be because he’s refused to play.

    As regards agents fees why can’t modern day players talk for themselves. I don’t think there are many agents who act purely on their clients behalf.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited January 2019
    Pengeman said:

    I doubt that he will stay anywhere for long.

    Before us, he was at Stoke for 4 seasons.

    Before that he was at Werder Bremen for 3 seasons.

    Before that he started his senior career at FC Twente, where he stayed for 3 years (although he was loaned out for a year of that).

    While none of those periods are 'very long' compared with Mark Noble, it's fairly average for the industry.

  • Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_MoyesJorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes
    It’s from the Daily Star ;doh
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited January 2019
    thornburyiron said:



    As regards agents fees why can’t modern day players talk for themselves.

    They can. Or the PFA will represent them. But here are sme reasons why they perhaps prefer to hire an agent.

    Do they have time to do all the negotiations and juggling of interest from perhaps 3 or 4 clubs at a time? Do they have the expertise to properly evaluate the financial implications including tax, when interest might be from several different countries with different tax regimes? Do they have the network of contacts to tout themselves around other clubs as they approach the end of their current contract? Do they have the time and resources to do 'due diligence' on potential clubs they might join? Do they have the time to attend face-to-face meetings in different countries, while still turning up for training and maintaining their 'focus' for their current club?

    Makes sense, to me, to have someone qualified and experienced to do all that for you.
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    I don't get why people are so happy to believe any old rubbish that is alleged in the media.

    Mirror - Arnie said he didn't want to play, as his head wasn't right

    Guardian - Pelle didn't pick him as Pelle thought Arnie's head wasn't right

    BBC - 'West Ham, who are not commenting on Arnautovic's omission'

    Star - West Ham set to fine Arnautovic

    Sky - 'West Ham manager Manuel Pellegrini says forward Marko Arnautovic has been training well despite interest from China.'

    I'm happy to believe Pelle over any media outlet.

  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    So why doesn’t he say why he’s left him out because if we get beaten I’m sure questions will be asked
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    edited January 2019
    Why should he have to?

    No doubt I'm in a very small minority, but I actually feel a bit sorry for Arnie.

    I think he likes playing for us, and the challenge of the PL, and I think he gets on well with the other players.

    I think he knows that he will have much less job satisfaction if he goes to China.

    For whatever reason, he doesn't feel in a position to brush off the extra money on offer, so may end up sacrificing his own immediate happiness for the extra bunce.

    I don't get why people assume that having pots of money means people can't or shouldn't feel ordianry human emotions.

    Money can't buy you happiness, but you can have a luxurious time being miserable...

  • EXETERHAMMEREXETERHAMMER
    Sorry Grey, I do not feel sorry for him at all. When you are earning 100k plus a week at a very good club you have to deal with the news, speculation and all that goes with it. After all, it was his brother who stepped up the hype in the first place.
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