Burnley at home - 10th March - Match Thread

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  • WHU_Champo_league_in_7_yearsWHU_Champo_league_in_7_years
    End of the day its the players on the oitch that need to give the fans something to cheer and imo onfe we went a goal down it was going to be a huge ask i couldnt see us scoring against Burnley

    The fans helped us lose the game yesterday there is no doubt about it but cant use that excuse the other 11 times we've conceeded more than 3 goals in a game and all the capitulations (agaisnt teams we should be beating at home) weve seen over the last 2 seasons
  • LukerzLukerz
    We capitulated like that only 7 days ago.

    Nothing to do with the fans.
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    edited March 2018
    "Before yesterday they had six home games out of nine, which to a certain extent looked an advantage," Brooking added.

    "When you've just lost 3-0, had people coming on to the pitch and a lot of people venting their frustration to the directors - that means the next five games at home look pretty bleak.

    "There is no way the team is going to play and get the points to stay up under that sort of atmosphere. It is impossible.

    "That atmosphere must never come back in the last five games otherwise the club is in serious trouble and the players won't be able to deliver.

    "I saw some families leaving because the youngsters were frightened.

    "The level of aggression was something I couldn't believe a West Ham fan would get involved in.

    "All I would say, between now and the end of the season is, 'anyone who has got that aggressive frustration just don't come to the five home games that are left' because we need everyone - all the fans and the team - all working together to try to get sufficient results."
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited March 2018
    Luke, no-one knows what would have happened if what did happen hadn't happened.

    It's just as unfounded (and unprovable) to say because we capitulated 7 days ago we would have done it again yesterday, as is is to say that because we fought back from a goal down against WBA to win 2-1, we'd have fought back from a goal down yesterday to win 2-1.

    What we can, with certainty, say is that the events yesterday after the first goal went in had a negative impact on the players. Nobes says precisely that in his post-match interview.

    I'm not suggesting the fans behaviour is an excuse. But it is a factor.

    I don't see how anyone can deny it.
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    Sir Trev. ;clap
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited March 2018
    Although...

    "The level of aggression was something I couldn't believe a West Ham fan would get involved in.
    Where has he been?
  • SuzanneClaretSuzanneClaret
    Well that’s ok then....

    Birmingham fans did too, only in the car park.



    I think an argument starts to become less than water tight once you align your actions with those of Birmingham fans. Let’s not forget how these ‘brothers in arms’ hounded a mangers daughter outside her school.
  • alderzalderz
    Birmingham fans drove Gold and Sullivan out, so we can too, seems to be the logic. But their owners since have been way worse, and their results have gotten worse and worse too. So what's the plan? Make them sell to the first cowboy who offers them a deal?
  • SuzanneClaretSuzanneClaret
    I’m not sure ‘the plan’ is as advanced as that Ald.
  • welovethehammerswelovethehammers
    IronHerb said:

    Perhaps Arnie admires the passion, not necessarily the way it was portrayed though.

    Ginge was the only other Hammer to stay on the pitch. He looked somewhat distraught.

    It told us a lot which about some of our players who were distraught and actively tried to get the fans off (Ie Noble, Collins, Arnie, Hart), as well as those that had their hands on their hips. I may be reading too much into it but to me that shows who the leaders and passionate players are in our team. It also gives an indication as to which players won't actively look to get involved when things go sour.
  • welovethehammerswelovethehammers
    Lukerz said:

    We capitulated like that only 7 days ago.

    Nothing to do with the fans.

    We capitulated like that because:

    Goal 2 - Collins and Ogbonna weren't concentrating (going through the motions rather than being switched on). I truly believe the fans played a big part in that.

    Goal 3 - Hart howler - Very little to do with the fans. Purely down to Hart's poor goalkeeping (just a typical howler from Hart but nothing out of the ordinary from him).
  • SuzanneClaretSuzanneClaret
    edited March 2018
    Would I confront a fan who ran onto the pitch, risking injury.

    I don’t think I would.

    Categorising players in this way in wrong, crowd control is not their job and not to do has nothing at all to do with passion.
  • welovethehammerswelovethehammers
    SuzanneClaret said:

    Would I confront a fan who ran onto the pitch, risking injury.

    I don’t think I would.

    Categorising players in this way in wrong, crowd control is not their job and not to do has nothing at all to do with passion.

    I'm not saying all players should have done what Noble did.

    Collins pulled two fans off in a less aggressive fashion.

    Arnie didn't get involved like Noble did but went over to the fans after the match. It's that sort of thing that speaks volumes.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    Noble saw the red mist. All this 'I have to defend myself' is nonsense as the fan hadn't really threatened him and appeared to be on his way off the pitch. Noble caught him and threw him to the ground.
  • alderzalderz
    Completely disagree with that Herb. If someone ran into my work who wasn’t meant to be there I think I would be within my rights to stop them. We all hear stories about someone on the street stopping a criminal, this is the same. Noble did absolutely nothing wrong.
  • alderzalderz
    Also, Ashley Barnes tripped one of the invaders too but nobody has mentioned that. It just seems to me that some (particularly on twitter) are looking to absolve the supporters of blame and direct it at the club instead.

    (Not that I think you are doing thay Herb, just to be clear ;hug )
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    But Alderz I think you will find it's not in Nobles rights under the laws of the game. I saw the Barnes trip and he may well be in trouble too.
  • WHU_Champo_league_in_7_yearsWHU_Champo_league_in_7_years
    Not quite at that stage

    Wasnt there only 5 invaders throughout the game?
  • Pearces_Left_FootPearces_Left_Foot
    Brooking has said if the atmosphere continues we will be relegated and I have to say I agree. If people want to protest there are better ways than pitch invasions and hurling abuse and coins at the directors box.
  • chicagohammerchicagohammer
    edited March 2018
    I do not doubt the report about the coin being thrown at DS and hitting him, the coverage I saw showed him being led away and he clearly looked shaken, I thought at the time that something more than words had been hurled at him.

    No excuses can be made for that, period.
  • alderzalderz
    Say what you like about the owners, but David Gold is 81 years old and people were throwing coins at him.
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    There is no justification for such behaviour, so there is no relevant pattern.

    It's like suggesting if someone is mugged more than once it is something to do with them, not the ones who attack them, and blaming the victim.

  • chicagohammerchicagohammer
    edited March 2018
    Not sure I agree with you there Grey, I think your comment is a little too black and white for me.

    Certainly the actions of those relatively few who threw coins and in other ways disrupted the game yesterday acted in a way that was totally unjustified in any circumstance.

    However, I would gauge that there are many west ham fans, myself included, who are very disillusioned at the position we find ourselves in.

    Is it really unreasonable to wonder and conclude that the owners (possibly driven by ego and ill placed self belief in themselves) have previous and have managed to create widespread discontent within both clubs they have primarily been associated with.

    For the record, irrespective of motivations and who said what and when, I personally fear and believe that the move to the London Stadium will prove to be a very poor decision that is not only irreversible, but a total disaster for the club.

    Ho hum
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    The most worrying thing to me is the crowd of 200,300 or whatever confronting the board and throwing coins would have caused serious personal injury had they been able to get up close. From the videos I've seen they were like rabid dogs except a rabid dog would have a higher IQ than them.
    Protest is one thing when done peacefully but this was well outside any barometer of decency.
    If a solution isn't found that will prevent this happening again in three weeks time I can see us forced to play behind closed doors and that will be terminal for us.
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    edited March 2018
    Chicago

    Logically, if certain actions are unjustifiable, then the actions of the victims are irrelevant.

    If one is to suggest a victim 'brought it on themselves' that is, to me, to suggest justification.

    I would argue a clear distinction needs to be drawn between justifiable protest and unjustifiable behaviour, and that by suggesting the owners had 'previous' Posh was intentionally blurring the issues.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    Poshhammer said:



    No one is saying it's right or wrong...

    Erm, well yes they are.
  • SuzanneClaretSuzanneClaret
    By that logic I can just walk up and smack an 80 year old man in the face.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited March 2018
    Poshhammer said:


    Can you name any other football club owners whov gone on to own 2 or more clubs and have had match day protests and fan disgruntlement against them at both clubs?

    Well, if you want to compare them with other owners, you'll need first to put together a list of owners who have owned 2 or more clubs. It won't be a very long list.
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    edited March 2018
    Again, you deliberately blur the distinction and ignore the point.


    match day protests and fan disgruntlement
    is not the issue.

    Condemning certain actions as unjustifiable, but at the same time suggesting that the owners brought it on themselves, is either contradictory, disingenuous or both.
  • SuzanneClaretSuzanneClaret
    Both.
This discussion has been closed.