Burnley at home - 10th March - Match Thread

Pearces_Left_Foot

Brooking has said if the atmosphere continues we will be relegated and I have to say I agree. If people want to protest there are better ways than pitch invasions and hurling abuse and coins at the directors box.

chicagohammer

I do not doubt the report about the coin being thrown at DS and hitting him, the coverage I saw showed him being led away and he clearly looked shaken, I thought at the time that something more than words had been hurled at him.

No excuses can be made for that, period.

alderz

Say what you like about the owners, but David Gold is 81 years old and people were throwing coins at him.

Poshhammer

grey_til_I_dye said:

I hope it is safe to assume you meant 'condemn' there.
.

I meant condemn!

Poshhammer

SuzanneClaret said:

Well that’s ok then....

Birmingham fans did too, only in the car park.



I think an argument starts to become less than water tight once you align your actions with those of Birmingham fans. Let’s not forget how these ‘brothers in arms’ hounded a mangers daughter outside her school.

No one is saying it's right or wrong...however this is not the first time that it's happened to these owners. There appears to be a pattern.

grey_til_I_dye

There is no justification for such behaviour, so there is no relevant pattern.

It's like suggesting if someone is mugged more than once it is something to do with them, not the ones who attack them, and blaming the victim.

chicagohammer

Not sure I agree with you there Grey, I think your comment is a little too black and white for me.

Certainly the actions of those relatively few who threw coins and in other ways disrupted the game yesterday acted in a way that was totally unjustified in any circumstance.

However, I would gauge that there are many west ham fans, myself included, who are very disillusioned at the position we find ourselves in.

Is it really unreasonable to wonder and conclude that the owners (possibly driven by ego and ill placed self belief in themselves) have previous and have managed to create widespread discontent within both clubs they have primarily been associated with.

For the record, irrespective of motivations and who said what and when, I personally fear and believe that the move to the London Stadium will prove to be a very poor decision that is not only irreversible, but a total disaster for the club.

Ho hum

thornburyiron

The most worrying thing to me is the crowd of 200,300 or whatever confronting the board and throwing coins would have caused serious personal injury had they been able to get up close. From the videos I've seen they were like rabid dogs except a rabid dog would have a higher IQ than them.
Protest is one thing when done peacefully but this was well outside any barometer of decency.
If a solution isn't found that will prevent this happening again in three weeks time I can see us forced to play behind closed doors and that will be terminal for us.

grey_til_I_dye

Chicago

Logically, if certain actions are unjustifiable, then the actions of the victims are irrelevant.

If one is to suggest a victim 'brought it on themselves' that is, to me, to suggest justification.

I would argue a clear distinction needs to be drawn between justifiable protest and unjustifiable behaviour, and that by suggesting the owners had 'previous' Posh was intentionally blurring the issues.

Poshhammer

grey_til_I_dye said:

There is no justification for such behaviour, so there is no relevant pattern.

It's like suggesting if someone is mugged more than once it is something to do with them, not the ones who attack them, and blaming the victim.

Sorry Mr Grey but I do not agree with your comparison. Wether it's justified or right or wrong is irrelevant, it is fairly obvious that there is a clear comparison.

The fact is that our owners have owned 2 football Clubs and pretty much precisely the same thing has happened at both of those clubs after a certain period of time.

Can you name any other football club owners whov gone on to own 2 or more clubs and have had match day protests and fan disgruntlement against them at both clubs?

MrsGrey

Poshhammer said:

No one is saying it's right or wrong...

Erm, well yes they are.

SuzanneClaret

By that logic I can just walk up and smack an 80 year old man in the face.

MrsGrey

Poshhammer said:

Can you name any other football club owners whov gone on to own 2 or more clubs and have had match day protests and fan disgruntlement against them at both clubs?

Well, if you want to compare them with other owners, you'll need first to put together a list of owners who have owned 2 or more clubs. It won't be a very long list.

grey_til_I_dye

Again, you deliberately blur the distinction and ignore the point.

match day protests and fan disgruntlement

is not the issue.

Condemning certain actions as unjustifiable, but at the same time suggesting that the owners brought it on themselves, is either contradictory, disingenuous or both.

SuzanneClaret

Both.

Cuz1

Ken Bates did at both Leeds and Chelsea, derek pavis forest and Notts

chicagohammer

grey, i am not sure that anyone is deliberately and intentionally blurring the issue, I trust that we can both agree that violent reaction against person or property is clearly unjustifiable.

However

I actually do hold the owners responsible for my own non violent reaction, and that reaction manifests itself as a strong feeling of disillusionment with where the club currently is and I have a very real fear for its future, and it hurts.

What I hope to see at the Southampton game is a coming together of team and supporters, I hope that Southampton enter the stadium to a cauldron of sound and that they get battered.

In a non violent way of course :-)

grey_til_I_dye

Chicago

But I haven't suggested your feelings are unjustified, and I haven't suggested the owners share no responsibility for those feelings.

My point was specifically directed at Posh for conflating such feelings with violent conduct.

chicagohammer

Grey, I think we may have found our middle ground, in a nutshell it is certainly agreed that the actions of the owners in no way justifies the sort of violent response we saw yesterday.

However

It is equally understandable to conclude that the actions of the owners have contributed to a widespread feeling of disillusionment amongst the fan base.

That is certainly the way I see it.

I have supported WHU for over 30 years and will not stop now, I do consider this a low point, not my first, but I actually hope that for at least the short term, the supporters will rally behind the team and we can go on from here and we may just survive this and stay up for another year.

I remain however, very fearful of the mid to long term prospects as I think the move to the LS is going to have a lasting negative effect upon us and I do not think a realistic ready made solution is on the horizon.

Just my tuppence worth

Poshhammer

Cuz1 said:

Ken Bates did at both Leeds and Chelsea, derek pavis forest and Notts

So 3 ;ok

Poshhammer

grey_til_I_dye said:

Chicago

But I haven't suggested your feelings are unjustified, and I haven't suggested the owners share no responsibility for those feelings.

My point was specifically directed at Posh for conflating such feelings with violent conduct.

I was simply stating a fact that violence and fan protest has now happened to our owners at both the club's they've owned.

Do you agree that this is a fact?

Poshhammer

SuzanneClaret said:

By that logic I can just walk up and smack an 80 year old man in the face.

I'm not sure how you've made that leap...
all I've done is simply point out that the same thing has now happened to Sullivan, Gold and Brady at the 2 football clubs they have owned.

Again this is indisputable.

thornburyiron

If so it just proves both clubs had mindless cretins hell bent on causing trouble. Fans do not involve themselves in violence to achieve an end.
If you are trying to justify what happened yesterday then as far as I'm concerned you're nowhere near succeeding as such actions cannot be justified.

Poshhammer

thornburyiron said:

If so it just proves both clubs had mindless cretins hell bent on causing trouble. Fans do not involve themselves in violence to achieve an end.
If you are trying to justify what happened yesterday then as far as I'm concerned you're nowhere near succeeding as such actions cannot be justified.

I've said many times already that fans running on the pitch is wrong as is anyone using violence....but I will state again that it is simply a fact that it has happened to them twice now. They have clearly annoyed 2 sets of fans in a way in which either violence, protest(both outside and inside the stadium), chanting, banners and even people setting up groups to raise their concerns have taken place.

Once more I'm simply stating a fact.

Cuz1

Poshhammer said:

Cuz1 said:

Ken Bates did at both Leeds and Chelsea, derek pavis forest and Notts

So 3 ;ok

You asked a question, I mearly answered it, I’d say just because it as happened at another club doesn’t make it right, and by the way I’m anti board but they didn’t deserve to be hounded out of there seats end of imo

IronHerb

Being paranoid here but jut watching MOTD2 and had the thought that generally when there are fans on the pitch the cameras steer clear of showing it with the "Oh dear, there's an idiot on the pitch" comment. In this instance both SKY and the BBC haven't stop showing it. ;hmm

MIAHammer

IronHerb said:

Being paranoid here but jut watching MOTD2 and had the thought that generally when there are fans on the pitch the cameras steer clear of showing it with the "Oh dear, there's an idiot on the pitch" comment. In this instance both SKY and the BBC haven't stop showing it. ;hmm

Usually though, the idiots aren't accompanied by a mob hurling abuse at the director's box. Which is why, I suspect, that this issue hasn't died down in the media.

chicagohammer

It is pretty hard to ignore a bloke carrying the corner flag into the center circle, what amazes me is that he is not a kid.

There really was a security issue there, a guy running across the pitch is one thing but wielding a five foot pole............

Pearces_Left_Foot

All these people have done is make the club unattractive to any potential investors and set back the image of the club 30 years

baracks_a_hammer

I have read Garth Crook’s team of the week and am completely outraged that none of our stellar performers made it into his team. It is scandalous.