Not Sure What Thread/Where to put it (from Feb 2026)

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  • Slacker said:

    Ok here’s a rant.
    I’m so sick and tired of knuckledraggers, idiots “taking the knee” for that poor lad in Southampton, Tommy Robinson, Farage, Tice, Lowe, Baddenock,Musk,Hesgeth,Vance , Trump and the rest.

    A bit like starmer doing it for the bloke in the states ?

    At least we agree that starmer is a complete knuckle dragger =)
    Sorry, remind me where Starmer used it in a similar way.
  • Sir Keir IMO has to be the weakest PM in decades and there's been some useless ones....
  • What would you base that on Jay?

    My take on him would be as follows.

    He came to power at a time when populist politics had diminished our standing in the world and made trading with our nearest trade partners in Europe more difficult, all due to a nonsensical populist Brexit based upon an idea of UK strength and exceptionalism that had no basis in reality, but was sold to a portion of the population as viable and beneficial. This was Johnson. Then markets which are hugely important when you have as much debt as we have had begun to get concerned due to Truss making no fiscal sense whatsoever.

    So Starmer's big problem is it's now very difficult to generate growth but he can't spend without growth or cuts. People want better services and way of life but we can't spend without being able to show where the money will come from.

    He has decided to try and make cuts where least hurting those in most need and generate growth slowly but in the right direction, all whilst reassuring markets he can be trusted. In doing so he has made some political mistakes such as winter fuel allowance, something that makes sense as it was a non means tested benefit but is politically an own goal. He has made a few other needless political mistakes in my view but nothing major. Globally he has instilled a trust in his sincerity, especially in Europe and did a great job of schmoozing Trump until it became impossible not to stand against him over this current war.

    Growth is currently the best in the G7
    Immigration which shot up after Brexit now falling
    illegal immigration falling
    Trust with European partners slowly being restored

    I think he lacks political instinct and charisma but is doing a good job in hugely difficult circumstances, and most of all may be one of the last public servant politicians we get to see.

  • Seems reasonable enough to me.
  • edited June 10

    Sir Keir IMO has to be the weakest PM in decades and there's been some useless ones....

    He's done so many U turns that he had to sit down feeling dizzy

    That's starmer, not you Jay =)
  • edited June 10

    What would you base that on Jay?

    My take on him would be as follows.

    He came to power at a time when populist politics had diminished our standing in the world and made trading with our nearest trade partners in Europe more difficult, all due to a nonsensical populist Brexit based upon an idea of UK strength and exceptionalism that had no basis in reality, but was sold to a portion of the population as viable and beneficial. This was Johnson. Then markets which are hugely important when you have as much debt as we have had begun to get concerned due to Truss making no fiscal sense whatsoever.

    So Starmer's big problem is it's now very difficult to generate growth but he can't spend without growth or cuts. People want better services and way of life but we can't spend without being able to show where the money will come from.

    He has decided to try and make cuts where least hurting those in most need and generate growth slowly but in the right direction, all whilst reassuring markets he can be trusted. In doing so he has made some political mistakes such as winter fuel allowance, something that makes sense as it was a non means tested benefit but is politically an own goal. He has made a few other needless political mistakes in my view but nothing major. Globally he has instilled a trust in his sincerity, especially in Europe and did a great job of schmoozing Trump until it became impossible not to stand against him over this current war.

    Growth is currently the best in the G7
    Immigration which shot up after Brexit now falling
    illegal immigration falling
    Trust with European partners slowly being restored

    I think he lacks political instinct and charisma but is doing a good job in hugely difficult circumstances, and most of all may be one of the last public servant politicians we get to see.

    Just my own views, I see many 'non main stream' news, I find that is more reality than what people see on national TV, of course he inherited a mess, but IMO I really think he's a complete waste of space, all IMO......
  • U turns tend to happen when a policy is received badly or is recognised quickly to have a fault. The first is about the nature of democracy and needing keep people satisfied whilst trying to make sometimes painful changes to alter the shape of things longer term, so the course is seen to be too politically costly so a U turn happens. The second cause of a U turn is about being able to see a fault in the theory as it develops that may not have been visible from the outset, this is a positive attribute and shows flexibility.

    U turns don't automatically represent a failing of a leader or leadership in my view, which U turns have you found make you doubt his ability Expat?
  • edited June 10

    Sir Keir IMO has to be the weakest PM in decades and there's been some useless ones....

    Liz Truss

    That is all
  • U turns don't automatically represent a failing of a leader or leadership in my view, which U turns have you found make you doubt his ability Expat?

    The winter fuel payments springs to mind. I gets scrapped to almost all pensioners, and when the backbenchers start telling him that it will cost votes, it is suddenly partially restored.

    We will cut the benefits bill. Again the backbenchers scream and what do we get, a U turn.

    There have been so many changes in policy from his lot I've forgotten most of them.

    IMO he reminds me of our own sullivan, and will do anything to cling on to power.
  • I agree about the winter fuel being a mistake but in my view it falls into the second category of U turn. It's a good idea as it's a non means tested benefit, meaning that every pensioner received it. I think all people would agree thousands upon thousands of people were getting money they didn't need at a time we needed make savings, for instance Sullivan would have got a winter fuel allowance as being of pension age.

    The mistake was that many pensioners may not only have their state pension and be on supplementary benefit ( which was his first cut off), but still be in need. I can't recall the cut off it landed on eventually but I recall saying as soon as that policy was announced that it's a bad policy unless the cut off is much higher at maybe 30k threshold. It was an obvious flaw in the policy and shouldn't have needed back benchers to draw attention to it but it was good that it was finally spotted and rectified.

    Altering course and making a u turn is really a show of flexibility, not much different to a football manager changing things up at half time, but the change or turn needs to make sense and I think the winter fuel U turn made sense. It would have been very bad to not alter it's course. Thatcher was famous for saying 'this lady's not for turning' but she would have benefitted from more flexibility. the poll tax bought her down for a similar reason, an ill thought through policy that needed revisiting, but she prided herself on never changing her mind.

    To return to the football analogy/metaphor? ( not sure which it is) if manager starts 4-4-2 and it's not working no one says he should see it through as that's his decision ! we want them to be able to change their mind and make changes to try and get the best outcome.
  • I think Starmer is a decent enough man tbh. I mean, he's even going to canvas for Burnham.
    Sadly his judgement regarding Mandleson was awful.
    He's a law man,
    A man who refers to the books for guidance on what happened in past cases,
    When he has to make a decision himself he falls down on the job more often than not.
  • ASLEF, Liz Truss wasn't in office long enough to do too much damage unlike SKS.

    Still hasn't managed to get the boats to do u turns in the channel has he, now that's a political grenade for me to be castigated over!
  • Everton have been told to pay Burnley £35M over PSR rule breaches in 21/22 which Burnley claimed impacted their ability to avoid relegation. Everton had a 10 point reduction reduced to 6 but it couldn’t be applied for the season impacted.
    How many clubs might make a claim against City if they’re found guilty and have a big points deduction. Not sure if it was just the one season or multiple seasons the 115 offences occurred.
  • Serves them right for not beating Spurs
  • That is a huge can of worms as each and every ruling can now be adjudged to have had negative effect on other clubs. It could have no end.
  • No different from us paying Sheffield Utd £25m over Tevez
  • I would say very different and far more complex if City are found guilty. There will be multiple teams claiming loss of income due to winning titles, qualifying for Europe etc etc, many teams and over multiple seasons.
  • ASLEF, Liz Truss wasn't in office long enough to do too much damage unlike SKS.

    Still hasn't managed to get the boats to do u turns in the channel has he, now that's a political grenade for me to be castigated over!

    Liz Truss managed to do horrendous damage to the economy in the short time she was in office

    There weren't any boats before Brexit and we could send illegal immigrants back to France so it's yet another problem created by the Tories that Starmer has inherited

    I didn't like Starmer before he was elected Labour leader, I liked him even less after he was elected Labour leader and u-turned on every pledge he'd made before he was elected leader and I certainly don't like him now he's Prime Minister

    But its still better than the Tories
  • edited June 11
    There were no boats before Brexit because every migrant was considered legal and anybody could come in. We didn’t really send any body back.
    There are only boats now because a) the French don’t want them and b) they get free handouts here and c) they know we will not deport them unless we pay them to go.
  • You need to look at the Dublin accord Thorn.

    It was due to be replaced but it and any replacement failed to apply between ourselves and France once Brexit happened. France could just let them set sail and leave it to us, which is what they did.

  • There are only boats now because .... they get free handouts here

    The 'free handouts' are very basic and the criteria to get them very strict. It is way below what someone on benefits would get.

    Would you want to change places with them?
  • I don't get that Mrs Grey, isn't Thorn British ?
  • Sorry to confuse. I meant would he want their 'free handouts' lifestyle. Free accommodation, etc.
  • I'd better duck after posting this,
    But when I see those people, some with babes in arms, wading out waist high to try to get on an already crammed dingy to take a twenty mile trip across the channel to what they hope is a better life,
    I thank my lucky stars that for all the ups and downs of navigating our way through life so far, none of my family or I were ever in such an awful situation position as to even have to contemplate such a dangerous endeavor.
    Yes, some are on the make,
    Some are obviously chancing their arm,
    Some are probably undesirable,
    But some are undoubtedly totally desperate.
    Identifying to which group each one belongs and acting accordingly is the test for the current system.

    Now Crusty, get behind the sofa.

    ASLEF, Liz Truss wasn't in office long enough to do too much damage unlike SKS.

    Still hasn't managed to get the boats to do u turns in the channel has he, now that's a political grenade for me to be castigated over!

    Liz Truss managed to do horrendous damage to the economy in the short time she was in office

    There weren't any boats before Brexit and we could send illegal immigrants back to France so it's yet another problem created by the Tories that Starmer has inherited

    I didn't like Starmer before he was elected Labour leader, I liked him even less after he was elected Labour leader and u-turned on every pledge he'd made before he was elected leader and I certainly don't like him now he's Prime Minister

    But its still better than the Tories
    I agree that it's better than the Tories,
    But I do wonder what they were doing during the fourteen years of Tory rule that they keep referring to,
    Current events would point to them being down the Dog And Duck playing darts for most of the time.
  • Why…has the season started? 😀
  • In my view any politician that can maintain the standards of living as they currently are in the UK will be doing a decent job as we are a nation in decline now with no clear path upwards again. We have huge debt, no longer lead the field on anything and are encouraged to destroy ourselves from within by outside people like Musk etc, as social media makes governance virtually impossible. A slow road down through division and social collapse may beckon. Many feel this is inevitable and we are only now fighting to retain the institutions we have which provide many of the services we take for granted now for as long as possible until they collapse.

    It's a similar shift originating from the technological revolution which we are currently in as happened during the industrial revolution. Something new will emerge but it could look very Brave new world and dystopian.
  • One for you Crusty.

    A speech from Shakespeare performed by Sir Ian Mckellen. It was 400 years ago yet as relevant today.

  • Background and text:

    Sir Thomas More tells the story of More’s career as a public official. Its central irony is More’s dedication to the King – indeed, his assertion of the necessity of obedience to Henry VIII – and the deadly consequence to More when he was unable to obey Henry in the “King’s great matter.”

    The play begins on May 1, 1517, known to history as Evil May Day, when Londoners rose up against immigrants.

    A character grouses about the strangers: “Our country is a great eating country; ergo, they eat more in our country than they do in their own.” Another joins in: “Trash, trash; they breed sore eyes, and tis enough to infect the city with the palsey.”

    A riot is brewing until. . .Enter Thomas More, Sheriff of London. “Peace! Peace,” the rabble cry. They’ll listen to him. In a speech very much like Marc Antony’s in Julius Caesar, More warns, woos, and sways them:

    Grant them [the immigrants] removed, and grant that this your noise
    Hath chid down all the majesty of England;
    Imagine that you see the wretched strangers,
    Their babies at their backs and their poor luggage,
    Plodding to th’ ports and costs for transportation,
    And that you sit as kings in your desires,
    Authority quite silent by your brawl,
    And you in ruff of your opinions clothed;
    What had you got? I’ll tell you: you had taught
    How insolence and strong hand should prevail,
    How order should be quelled; and by this pattern
    Not one of you should live an aged man,
    For other ruffians, as their fancies wrought,
    With self same hand, self reasons, and self right,
    Would shark on you, and men like ravenous fishes
    Would feed on one another.

    The crowd acknowledges the truth of More’s words. One says: “We’ll be ruled by you, Master More, if you’ll stand our friend to procure our pardon.”

    Nay, certainly you are;
    For to the king God hath his office lent
    Of dread, of justice, power and command,
    Hath bid him rule, and willed you to obey;
    And, to add ampler majesty to this,
    He hath not only lent the king his figure,
    His throne and sword, but given him his own name,
    Calls him a god on earth. What do you, then,
    Rising gainst him that God himself installs,
    But rise against God?

    Sr. Thomas now turns to the immigrants’ plight and how the chastened and now trembling rabble might understand it.

    Say now the king
    (As he is clement, if th’ offender mourn)
    Should so much come to short of your great trespass
    As but to banish you, whither would you go?
    What country, by the nature of your error,
    Should give you harbor? go you to France or Flanders,
    To any German province, to Spain or Portugal,
    Nay, any where that not adheres to England,—
    Why, you must needs be strangers: would you be pleased
    To find a nation of such barbarous temper,
    That, breaking out in hideous violence,
    Would not afford you an abode on earth,
    Whet their detested knives against your throats,
    Spurn you like dogs, and like as if that God
    Owed not nor made not you, nor that the claimants
    Were not all appropriate to your comforts,
    But chartered unto them, what would you think
    To be thus used? this is the strangers case;
    And this your mountanish inhumanity.

    Immigration reform in the United States is essential. I believe there is nothing un-Christian about either national sovereignty or entry visas. But America’s current view of immigrants borders on xenophobia and is a mountanish inhumanity that needs to end.
  • That last paragraph is not my own.
  • Looks like we are arranging a visit to Rangers on 25 or 26 July for a friendly.
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