American Election Discussion

simonc

They obviously have something other than what was released, what was released as proof, proved nothing as i pointed out.
I am sure your own site security shows admin login attempts from many eastern European countries as well as China, India and the Philippians, those being the major offenders.
As for trying to influence elections I seem to recall Obama trying to influence the Brexit vote. ;hmm

MrsGrey

Lots of people try to influence elections.

There's nothing wrong with that.

In fact, isn't it rather the point? ;lol

Your Obama example doesn't work, because (a) it wasn't an election and (b) he spoke out publicly rather than doing illegal things behind the scenes.

#whataboutery

simonc

The mock outrage over here is "any foreign power" trying to influence the vote, either publicly or privately. That is just what Obama tried to do, however the majority of the British public had the good sense not to listen to him.

Vorselaarhammer

I see the new US Defense chief has now turned the attention to China and the Islands they are building in the South China Seas.

China response any attempt to interfere by the US will lead to a war... Going to be an interesting few years....

It may also explain why Trump is looking to place nice with Russia to present a united front to China.

chicagohammer

;sofa

simonc

Your right Chicago that's just what Obama has done for the last 8 years, now the Russians are in the Ukraine, the Chinese have military bases in the South China Sea, North Korea has been further developing long range missile technology, the Iranians have a path to become a nuclear power, Assad is still in power, Syria & Iraq are in shambles plus he allowed a new terrorist organisation to grow.
But i am sure any trouble will all be Trumps fault

grey_til_I_dye

I'm quite sure that for his supporters nothing whatsoever will be Trump's fault.

That's certainly the way the pre and post election has gone.

MrsGrey

Well, simon, won't it depend on what trouble comes, where from, and what it's causes are?

And then we can make up our own minds.

No good before any problems arise saying it will be Obama's fault....

simonc

Both sides are VERY encamped, I don't expect Anti Trumpers to acknowledge anything he does as good.

MrsGrey

He'd have to do something good first. ;wink

simonc

Time will tell he was voted in, so should be given a chance ;wink

chicagohammer

Simonc

I do not wish to engage in extensive discourse in order to champion my view over yours regarding the president elect, I do not expect to be able to change your mind and nor should you expect to be able to change mine, for the record, I for one do wish him well and hope that he does well, however....

To be clear....

I am hiding behind my couch because I truly fear what I believe he is capable of doing rather than worrying about the consequences of what Obama has done.

;ok

simonc

;ok Chicago - I was just trying to make the point that all is not ok in the world and Trump had nothing to do with creating these issues, he unfortunately has inherited a sizable mass caused by IMO weak foreign policies. I understand your concerns but ignoring these issues will not make them go away.
Thank you for hoping he does well, many don't

Moojor

simonc said:

;ok Chicago - I was just trying to make the point that all is not ok in the world and Trump had nothing to do with creating these issues, he unfortunately has inherited a sizable mass caused by IMO weak foreign policies. I understand your concerns but ignoring these issues will not make them go away.
Thank you for hoping he does well, many don't

Every single person "hopes" he does well. No sane person wants to see others hurt and upset by the actions of a leader.
Sadly, he current actions, his re-actions on twitter and his appointments to office, don't really fill many with hope that he will actually do any good while in office.

MrsGrey

Except, possibly, to his own businesses ;hmm

chicagohammer

With a bit of luck, if his actions benefit his businesses, hopefully they will also benefit everyone else's

You never know ;wink

simonc

MrsGrey said:

Except, possibly, to his own businesses ;hmm

I don't think he needs the money & i don't think a successful business owner should be forced to liquidate all assets to serve.
I think we have had far to many professional politicians and lawyers - time for a change

MrsGrey

simonc said:

I don't think he needs the money

Think what you like. I'm quite sure HE thinks he WANTS the money.

He's not acting like someone who doesn't need or want any more money, is he?

simonc said:

& i don't think a successful business owner should be forced to liquidate all assets to serve.

So you think its OK for public servants to use their power and influence to personally enrich themselves? If you don't, how do you ensure they are not able to?


Furthermore, he's not being asked to liquidate it all - just to put it somewhere where he doesn't control it, while he's doing this other job. He can have it all back, after.

simonc

Thanks for letting me think what i like, i don't understand why you think he wants the money when he is not even taking a salary, so yes i do think he is acting like someone who doesn't want the money.

"So you think its OK for public servants to use their power and influence to personally enrich themselves? If you don't, how do you ensure they are not able to?"

Unlike the current President that seems to have found enough money to keep his Chicago house while buying an 8 million dollar mansion in Washington or the Clintons who pay their New York mansion mortgage with the proceeds from renting the gate house back to the secret service. Trump already has a thriving business & is far less likely to cheat the system.

Plus the scrutiny on him appears far greater than on those mentioned.

His sons are going to run the business what would you suggest?

grey_til_I_dye

I would suggest that you read what the director of the US Office of Government Ethics and experts in US Constitutional law have to say about the issue.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38591754

IronHerb

Oh! That?

simonc

If you read the article it contradicts itself as many on the subject do "every President in modern times". So i would take that to read that maybe Lincoln or Washington did not?
Either way it is not realistic to think anyone could divest themselves of so many assets in such a short time frame even if they wanted to. The plan may not match what other recent Presidents have done but none that i recall were as successful or owned as much as Trump.
His plan may not be perfect & he leaves his decisions open to another level of scrutiny, which in turn should ensure he is acting for the benefit of the many and not just personal benefit.
Comparing him to Rex as the article does is ridiculous, for one the rules are different and Trumps business interests are far more diverse.

I am sure this will be an ongoing issue for all the never Trumpers, but so will most if not all of his actions when in office, even if they benefit the majority.

alderz

It seems to me that expert Ethics and Constitution lawyers and councils are likely to be giving an accurate and honest view on this, tbh

But I guess if you don't trust politicians to be politicians, why would you trust ethics councillors to be ethics councillors? While we're at it, I'd like a plumber to fix my car and a chef to do my heart surgery. Gotta shake it up a bit, right?

MrsGrey

I have no background in politics, no training in the law and have never held public office. I also have no experience of running a business.

Also, and here's the cherry on the top - I'm not even an American!!

Surely that qualifies me on all counts for having a go at the job after Trump.

Whaddaya think? Huh? Gimme a chance, you've tried everything else. ;wink

Swissiron

Trump supporter I know said to me yesterday that I was crazy to think the US got Osama bin Laden in 2011 when everyone knows that was fake news and bi Laden died shortly after the WTC bombing in 2001... Now I dont know what to think. Did we land on the moon in 69? Did West Ham win yesterday?

simonc

Rest assured Swiss West Ham won yesterday ;wahoo as for the rest this discussion will be neverending ;doh

SuzanneClaret

chicagohammer

Well tomorrow is the big day but I have been amused by Rick Perry the secretary elect of the Dept of Energy.

He came out today and said "now I have been made aware of the crucial work done by the brilliant men and women of the Energy Dept, I regret comments I made back in 2011 where I advocated the elimination of the Energy Dept"

There was a bit more to it than strictly that, but it did make me laugh.

Some stuff just cannot be made up

;lol

claretandbluesky

There is only so much you can watch before recognising that there must be some cosmic comedy show being made, I still catch myself watching Trump on TV and thinking that cannot be true, he cannot be President!

I personally cannot see him lasting a full term and think he has a short period of demonstrating he has what it takes to change and represent the country in an adult way, or he will be removed through one way or another, impeachment or the whole house just refusing to back him if he does something really dumb. It was remarked some time back that although he came through the republican party he is really an independent as so many Republicans hate him and so he could find himself a President without any support in the house if he proceeds as feared and be able to push no policies through anyhow.

I do agree Obama was incredibly weak with regard foreign policy, he is a great speech giver, would make a most wonderful friend, school headmaster, lawyer etc but not a president. Putin recognised these last few years he could do whatever he wanted and Obama would never fight back as he was too afraid to meet force with force as essentially feared confrontation. However, and it is a big however there is no way for me that Trump is the answer. I actually felt Clinton was the best option with regard foreign policy and Saunders for homeland America.

Trump may just convince those with little to brand all his opponents as elites whilst taking him as one of their own, whilst he does everything the same as those branded elites, but in a less articulate way.

chicagohammer

So the head of the Dept of Energy is actually in charge of America's Nuclear Arsenal, the outgoing head is a nuclear physicist - Our man Perry studied animal husbandry at college.

Stephen Colbert monologue,

Well it made me laugh