Aston Villa (home) 2.00pm Sunday 17th March

MrsGrey

Bottler will never give it.

buffybegood

We had one against Freiburg where the ref kept to his original decision, so how about another one.

steve

Hate VAR

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

Farcical. How on earth can they be sure

buffybegood

Really not happy about that one.

chicagohammer

Not happy, not happy at all

Expat_Hammer

They just don't want us to.win, do they
No clear view, but as it's only West Ham let's disallow it, bunch of expletives

MrsGrey

Actually looking again, it's really obvious it's off Souceks arm.

No idea why they took so long.

My comms was misleading about it being a Bowen handball. That, I believe, was unclear.

Expat_Hammer

Oh well, we'll just get the latest ever winner

buffybegood

MrsGrey said:

Actually looking again, it's really obvious it's off Souceks arm.

No idea why they took so long.

Yeah, that final replay it did look really obvious tbh.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

MrsGrey said:

Actually looking again, it's really obvious it's off Souceks arm.

No idea why they took so long.

I don't think you can actually see this happen, it's an inference but the post is in the way

buffybegood

1-1 FT.

alderz

That’s a good point, but I can’t help feel robbed.

Expat_Hammer

We have had a run of horrendous VAR calls recently.

MIAHammer

I don't think we can complain about the disallowed goals. By the letter of the law they should have been disallowed.
However the inconsistencies with the booking offences is ludicrous. They should have been down to 10 men for the last few minutes.

buffybegood

Their player should definitely have been sent off for a second yellow, complete lack of consistency again.

Pengeman

Robbed. Two goals disallowed. I couldn't see anything wrong with the Soucek goal at the end as there was no conclusive evidence of deliberate handball. Need to get to that 6th/7th spot.

chicagohammer

I will take the point,, re the refereeing, I am more perplexed with Antonio’s disallowed effort, it was high, almost on his shoulder but his arm was firmly against his body and would have gone in off his torso had it not been there.

Do not understand at all why the player was not sent off for a second yellow when he threw the ball away, that was a very clear and obvious error.

Overall, I will take the point, Villa showed in the second half how good they are and we were imo, unlucky with Antonio’s goal but contributed to our downturn with his substitution, we immediately looked vulnerable and surrendered territory and possession.

I was happy with the performance, we are looking pretty decent right now

thornburyiron

We’ve had 2 blatant handballs not given as penalties for us as deemed not handball and now 2 disallowed goals for handball one of which took 6 minutes to decide.
I know there were lots of mistakes pre VAR but if VAR is going to make decisions they need to make sure of the laws first.
Wasn’t today’s ref the VAR at the Chelsea game a couple of seasons ago who had to apologise for disallowing a goal for us.

buffybegood

Pengeman said:

Robbed. Two goals disallowed. I couldn't see anything wrong with the Soucek goal at the end as there was no conclusive evidence of deliberate handball. Need to get to that 6th/7th spot.

Tbh I felt like that but, after the decision was made, my stream showed an angle where Soucek clearly, and maybe even deliberately, knocked the ball with his arm to put it over the line.

claretandbluesky

I am happy for Souceks to be called handball but not sure how we didn't get the penalty against Burnley last week if it is.

Best league in the world but very poor officials. Not sure why some of our players were shaking his hand afterwards as though he had a good game. Bottled their player getting a second yellow also.

MrsGrey

thornburyiron said:

We’ve had 2 blatant handballs not given as penalties for us as deemed not handball and now 2 disallowed goals for handball one of which took 6 minutes to decide.
I know there were lots of mistakes pre VAR but if VAR is going to make decisions they need to make sure of the laws first.
Wasn’t today’s ref the VAR at the Chelsea game a couple of seasons ago who had to apologise for disallowing a goal for us.

It's 2 different rules though. The first one is a judgement call whether deliberate or not. The second one the ref has no discretion and deliberate/not is irrelevant. It is touches an arm, it has to be ruled out.

steve

2 home draws is not good enough if we want to make Europe with our League form

MIAHammer

Pengeman said:

Robbed. Two goals disallowed. I couldn't see anything wrong with the Soucek goal at the end as there was no conclusive evidence of deliberate handball. Need to get to that 6th/7th spot.

Doesn’t matter if it’s deliberate or not as he was the last one that touched the ball (as far as we can see). If Bowen touched it after him then they would have to decide whether the Soucek’s handball was deliberate or not.

thornburyiron

Mrs G that’s because there are different laws for attack and defence. If a goal is scored by the ball touching an arm then it is deemed handball regardless of where the arm is even if it’s hidden inside the shirt or it bounces off them or a defender.
Defenders need to have made their body bigger for it to be deemed handball so penalties are not awarded nor are they awarded if it comes off their body before hitting the arm.
Also the arm is deemed to start at the bottom of the armpit so the “it hit the sleeve” is also irrelevant as the armpit is just below the shoulder.
This all makes the law stupid especially as the governing body allow leagues to interpret how they wish so if a league can do that then it’s little wonder refs in the same league seem to have their own interpretation.

MrsGrey

I know that. That's what I was saying...

It's not just attack or defence - it's if it leads to a goal, or is anywhere else on the pitch.

Tbh, the fans have only themselves to blame. The reason the ' no goal ' rule came into being was because there were so many people calling for clarity, simplicity, removing all judgement.

So that's what we've got - like offside - a question of fact. No grey areas.

Brother_Sledge

Still fuming about the time it took VAR to rule out the late goal but it looked the right decision. Made myself feel better by replaying the Emerson handball we got away with early in the game.

EXETERHAMMER

We had the ball in the net 4 times and came away with just the 1 goal.

Very unlucky

Slacker

If that’s the law ( any contact with arm or hand that leads to a goal will disallow the goal) the the law is wrong. How the hell is anybody supposed to move their arm out of the way in an absolute millisecond?
Let’s get back to whether it’s deliberate or not.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

I watched the first half, had my roast dinner, and came back at about the 75 minute mark, at which point the game was so different. I know that naturally happens sometimes in football, but it is frustrating to be so positive for the first 45 minutes only to end up so under the cosh in the second half.

I was also impressed with how high, and how well, we pressed in the first half. So often we let teams have it almost to the halfway line. I don't think Villa were expecting it and we did it really effectively. Which begs the question, can't we do it more often? I really liked watching it.