Jesse Lingard: Yes or No

Lukerz

Let’s look at options who play where Lingard does…

AM/LM: Fornals < Lingard
AM: Paqueta > Lingard
LW: Cornet < Lingard
RW: Bowen > Lingard
LW: Benrahma = Lingard

I’d argue only Bowen (as a RW) & Paqueta (as an AM) are better than Lingard in those positions, or at least more suitable. I’d argue Lingard will be more influential on the left than Fornals or Cornet, maybe equal with Benrahma.

alderz

jay_in_cpt said:

alderz said:

Lukerz said:

The reality is, if he’s better than an academy player, he should be ahead of them.

Only if you're only interested in right now. The reality might be that for David Moyes that's the case, as his job is on the line and he has to care about the here and now above all else, but the reality for me as a fan is different. I care about the long term success of the club, the academy and players progressing into the first team, and signing Lingard could potentially be a barrier to those things.

While I agree, a question is there any similar player to Lingard from the U23's that has been on fringes, I don't know, Divin seems more of a centre forward than Lingard type, so who would Lingard be stopping from progressing, just a question....

A fair question.

Lingard can play in any of the front 4 positions (RW/LW/AM/CF). During his loan spell with us he played 11 times as an AM, 3 times as a CF, and 2 times from LW (according to Transfermarkt). So, to me, that means that Moyes would be prepared to play him as a striker, which would block Mubama's route to the team. Aside from that though, we also know that Moyes considers Bowen an option up front. If you have Lingard to come into the side on the RW, then perhaps Bowen goes up front and Mubama is again blocked.

FWIW, I'm not necessarily saying we shouldn't sign anyone as it might block Mubama, I'm just saying that, if we're talking about a short term deal for someone who can "do a job" then I would prefer for us to prioritise young players.

Lukerz said:

Let’s look at options who play where Lingard does…

AM/LM: Fornals < Lingard
AM: Paqueta > Lingard
LW: Cornet < Lingard
RW: Bowen > Lingard
LW: Benrahma = Lingard

I’d argue only Bowen (as a RW) & Paqueta (as an AM) are better than Lingard in those positions, or at least more suitable. I’d argue Lingard will be more influential on the left than Fornals or Cornet, maybe equal with Benrahma.

Personally, I disagree. I think you're comparing what Lingard did two years ago, but he's barely played since leaving us. The only one I'm not confident is better than Lingard is Cornet, and that's because of what an injury hit season he just had.

AM/LM: Fornals > Lingard
AM: Paqueta > Lingard
LW: Cornet = Lingard
RW: Bowen > Lingard
LW: Benrahma > Lingard

Lukerz

I would 100% say Lingard is a more suited option on the left than Fornals. Maybe not centrally.

alderz

In the past two years, Fornals has carried the ball more per 90 and for more distance per 90 than Lingard. He's also attempted and completed more take ons per 90 than Lingard. He's received more progressive passes than Lingard, played more passes and progressive passes, had more touches, committed fewer fouls, lost possession less than Lingard per 90. He's won the ball back more, tackled nearly twice as much, blocked and intercepted much more per 90 too. And he's passed into the area more, created more shots, created more goals, created more xG, had more assists - again, all per 90. On top of that, he's had more shots, scored more goals and had a higher xG per 90 than Lingard.

In nearly every measure that is relevant for an attacking player, Fornals has outperformed Lingard in the past two years. And, before you ask me to go back three years to include the one six month period in Lingard's career where he's actually played will, I have already. And the only area where there is any significant change is that Lingard then created more goals than Fornals per 90.

IMO, there is literally no evidence to suggest that Lingard is better than Fornals on the left, in the middle, on the bench, or on the moon. I think you're basing your judgment off of a very short period of time more than two years ago, which the guy has shown no signs of replicating.

EXETERHAMMER

Lingard or Benhrama.

Pablo over both of them. Love Fornals

OutcastLondoner

Lingard had a dozen good games and ended the season almost completely ineffective. We were around top 4 before he came.

Players like Fornals deserve a lot more credit. The guy has battled for us and he was key to releasing counter attacks that let players like Lingard thrive. And Benrahma might be the most frustrating of the lot but he’s also made contributions and there was a period before the World Cup when many believed he was our best attacker. It took a lot longer for Paqueta to make any real impact.

Lingard did great things for us but one little window isn’t enough to say he’s better than who we have and I think those who have been there trying to make things happen in both the good and bad times deserve more credit. They may have struggled last season but it never felt like previous relegation battles when they might give up. He, on the other hand, messed us about for a whole window.

If he comes, great. He has to prove himself.

BubblesNeverDies

Alderz:
IMO, there is literally no evidence to suggest that Lingard is better than Fornals on the left, in the middle, on the bench, or on the moon.

Clactonite

I’d say a definite no unless he gets lots of goals and assists then I’d say yes 🙃

ScotHammer

It’s a NO from me. For most of the reasons already discussed, but also what he might do for team spirit, and those who he may displace. ⚒

buffybegood

ScotHammer said:

It’s a NO from me. For most of the reasons already discussed, but also what he might do for team spirit, and those who he may displace. ⚒

This is also a very valid point. We know that Moyes has (depending on your perspective of him) either loyalty or huge blindspots towards certain players and that he often appears to have very definite favourites who he is reluctant to drop regardless of their form. A concern for me would be that he will still only see the Lingard from 2 and a half years ago rather than the one that is right in front of him now (similar to the way that he appears to completely ignore the form of Harry Maguire for the last two years and feels he'd be signing 2021 Maguire, given his pursuit of him this window).

nychammer66

So who would you least like to have on the team? Lingard or Maguire?

alderz

nychammer66 said:

So who would you least like to have on the team? Lingard or Maguire?

Personally, ignoring the £ for now, I think the only answer is Maguire. I think he undeniably improves our squad, and almost certainly improves our first XI. Lingard would be a bench option at best, and we'd be gambling that he could rediscover a very small window of form from a long time again.

buffybegood

nychammer66 said:

So who would you least like to have on the team? Lingard or Maguire?

Ouch, tough choice, but for the money likely involved I'd prefer we took Lingard on a free for a 3 month cheap wages contract than Maguire for £30m on £100k a week for 3 or 4 years.

ScotHammer

Maguire, on a very, very short contract (e.g. by the time he drove to Rush Green from Manchester he was already out of contract)!

steve

Don't want either anywhere near our club .Could someone book a uber to get him out please

DJ Hammer

A definite no

Fortuneseeker

Hammers insider Sean Whetstone, whose sources include vice-chair Karren Brady and co-owner David Sullivan, has delivered an update this afternoon.

And he says Lingard is now ‘almost certain’ to be re-signed by West Ham after impressing Moyes and co.

“Former Hammer Jesse Lingard is now almost certain to sign a short-term contract with West Ham after impressing in training over the past week,” Whetstone said.

FEI. Doesn't look very pleasing does it?

alderz

Fortuneseeker said:

Hammers insider Sean Whetstone, whose sources include vice-chair Karren Brady and co-owner David Sullivan, has delivered an update this afternoon.

And he says Lingard is now ‘almost certain’ to be re-signed by West Ham after impressing Moyes and co.

“Former Hammer Jesse Lingard is now almost certain to sign a short-term contract with West Ham after impressing in training over the past week,” Whetstone said.

FEI. Doesn't look very pleasing does it?

2021 called. It wants its transfer rumour back.

MrsGrey

You sound like you think 'impressing in training' is a bad thing?

Fortuneseeker

The consensus on here who have posted have indicated they don’t want us to sign him that is why I said it didn’t look very pleasing. 👍

EXETERHAMMER

If he is free, wages are reasonable then ok.

But, he could have come to us after his loan but chose Forest. This doesn't sit well.

MrsGrey

Fortuneseeker said:

The consensus on here who have posted have indicated they don’t want us to sign him that is why I said it didn’t look very pleasing. 👍

19 people here have offered a view.

8 are unequivocally against.

Not what I'd call a consensus.

#JustTheFacts

Fortuneseeker

👍MrsG, I’ll go & spend some time on the naughty step.

MrsGrey

No need. Just dust off your abacus.

alderz

Look, if the club decide to sign him there will be a reason for it. He was popular when he was here before, he was successful when he was here before, and if he has impressed in training then fair enough. For me, I think he is extremely unlikely to live up to the heights of his loan spell, but like Lukerz said earlier, he can do a job. And maybe I'm completely wrong and he does replicate that loan spell form and we'll have got an absolute steal.

Slacker

Life’s too short to hold grudges.

Yes from me.

Bazshuayi

If he's motivated to do well for us (I always thought training with us was more than just helping him keep fit) and has done well in training then Moyes will want him. He on a free can do well for us and if he starts scoring and assisting the vast majority will alter their prior opinions and let the past be the past. We need players who break quickly and well if we are to persist with our style. It cant be all on Bowen to provide it. We've potentially got plenty to gain and not much to lose

steve

He is just not good enough anymore ,Would be a real backward move from us

Bazshuayi

That could well be true. However, back to a club he did well at and motivation to get career on track could be a big positive for us. If he's not got it anymore, we're not spending a fee on him so I'm cool just with that alone

claretandbluesky

We may be getting a player for just wages and no real risk that only a year ago we would have paid a big signing on fee and pretty high wages. It could be a great move or not, if not he hangs around plays a few low level Euro matches and is off at Christmas having shown little. We could however pick up the player we thought we would like last year and who was with us before for very little.