Chelsea (away) Sunday 24th April 2pm Sky Sports

claretandbluesky

He must have been worth a run out against a top side to see how he handled it! Our options are seriously limited and it looks like a wasted opportunity to give him a test.

IronHerb

IronHerb said:

I maybe clutching at straws but -

https://twitter.com/WestHamWaycouk/status/1517542077625741313

https://twitter.com/TheHammers_/status/1517558296894668801

Lukerz

Anybody know what the news is? Available now or available soon?

ASLEFshrugged

It's not all doom and gloom!

Chelsea are having their own centre back crisis, not that they're short of CBs, rather than apart from Silva the ones that are available are struggling.

Rudiger is unavailable and Christensen allegedly was subbed at half time against Arsenal because he was injured rather than his performance. Sarr and Chalobah are both out of form

Tuchel normally plays a back three, the last time he played with a back four they lost at home to Brentford. He could play Azpilicueta alongside Silva if he doesn't think any of the other three are good enough.

Kovacic also unavailable

PrestonHammer

Ironherb, aka Ted Rogers, what's with the 321 clues?

IronHerb

I don't know. I'm just the messenger.

OldCastleSwift

I see that Liverpool play straight after us. No point in tuning in for our pre-match build up then as it will all be about the Merseyside derby.

Lukerz

Moyes considering Rice at CB. He says ‘can we find a four at the back, can we find a three’.

At the end of the day, we went to Anfield without Rice in midfield a few weeks ago & ultimately should have come away with a couple of goals and at least a point.

Fabianski
Johnson - Dawson - Rice - Cresswell
Fornals - Soucek - Lanzini
Bowen - Antonio - Benrahma

End of the day, can always move him into midfield second half.

alderz

It seems likely that we’ll play Rice at centre back, but honestly I’m really disappointed about it. I don’t see the point in stopping Alese from going on loan to Plymouth in January just to play our best midfielder out of position rather than give him an opportunity.

Brother_Sledge

Same starting line up as Lukerz but rest Antonio at half time.
Benrahma - Bowen - Vlasic is what I would like to see but probably won't

Fortuneseeker

I know it's a bit left field when it needs to be in the centre (of defence) but didn't I read somewhere that Alex Kral has played Centre Half before?

OldCastleSwift

Fortuneseeker said:

I know it's a bit left field when it needs to be in the centre (of defence) but didn't I read somewhere that Alex Kral has played Centre Half before?

He played a lot of his early career there. Probably more time spent at CB than Rice has.

alderz

Fortuneseeker said:

I know it's a bit left field when it needs to be in the centre (of defence) but didn't I read somewhere that Alex Kral has played Centre Half before?

Yeah, he played there a lot in the Czech league, but hasn't done it since (I think) 2019

alderz

alderz said:

Lukerz said:

This is a man who doesn’t even give Kral a chance, he isn’t playing Alese. 👍

Speaking of, Kral has started as a CB 35 times in his club career, but only once since leaving FK Teplice in 2019.

Rice has started as a CB 19 times for us in his career, but not since we lost 4-1 to Everton in September 2020, he hasn't had a run at CB since the end of the 2017/18 season, and of the 19 times we have kept 4 clean sheets. Also, from what I can tell, in that run at CB he basically only played in a back 3.

I hear what you're saying, and there's a big chance you are going to be right. But, IMO, Alese remains the best choice.

In fact, this was something I posted the other day

Fortuneseeker

Thanks alderz I knew I'd read it somewhere.

Pearces_Left_Foot

I think rice played cb away at Chelsea a few years back and got MOTM I think chucking Alese in before he is ready might destroy the lads confidence. I trust Moyes and the staff to know if he is up to it yet

claretandbluesky

Both Bowen and Antonio should be rested and protected for Thursday, Vlasic and Yarmalenko or Vlasic and Perkins.

ASLEFshrugged

Kral last played centre back 12 August 2019, Spartak Moscow v FK Rostov

They lost 4-1

Rice last played centre back 30 September 2020, away to Everton in the League Cup

We lost 4-1

buffybegood

I said earlier that I thought Kral had more chance of being used than Alese, but I still think we'll swap to a back 3/5

-----------------------Fabianski----------------------
---------Johnson---Dawson---Cresswell---------
Coufal (possibly Fredericks)------------Fornals
-----------------Soucek-----Rice---------------------
---------Bowen---------------------Lanzini---------
----------------------Antonio------------------------

Lukerz

That’s fine as long as the wing back is Fornals, not Masuaku

Lukerz

With Arsenal’s result, unless we beat Chelsea tomorrow, that’s probably top 4 gone via league placing (if it hadn’t already). If we did beat Chelsea then that sets up a must-win against Arsenal next week, just to go to within 2 points of them. But Man Utd losing means we stay in touching distance of them in 6th.

Lukerz

buffybegood said:

I said earlier that I thought Kral had more chance of being used than Alese, but I still think we'll swap to a back 3/5

-----------------------Fabianski----------------------
---------Johnson---Dawson---Cresswell---------
Coufal (possibly Fredericks)------------Fornals
-----------------Soucek-----Rice---------------------
---------Bowen---------------------Lanzini---------
----------------------Antonio------------------------

I think this is likely to be the side tomorow and against Frankfurt (swapping Areola). But Rice does give us an alternative to keep the back four.

Lukerz

Just seen we haven’t won away in the league since 1st Jan!

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Disappointed if Rice starts at CB

If we win then Moyes is a genius but think its a bad move, I'd have opted for a natural CB in Alese, who is excelling for the U23 and is left footed and yes....Rice is probably still better than Alese at CB but we will lose so much from midfield

Lukerz

Rice is a £150m player. He should be capable of playing at CB in a one-off game. Yes we lose his runs from the middle and passing/ball-winning but we have other players there who can look after the ball.

I still think it will be a back 3 and Rice will stay in midfield, but it’s not that big of a deal IMO.

claretandbluesky

I think Rice could play any position other than keeper, I certainly think you could put him up front if needed and he would be much better than Yarmalenko, I guess it's a case of where is he best utilised. I would at present start him in his usual position but ask him to sit deeper as he does for England, allowing Sucek to be the support to the attack when possible. If things develop and we go behind we can allow him to press forward again.

I don't think there is anyone who would imagine he wouldn't be much better than Diop at centre back however.

alderz

It's not about whether or not Rice is capable, and in fact I'm not sure that anyone has said he isn't capable of playing CB for a one off.

The points that most people seem to be making (I know I am), are that a) you lose from midfield if you play Noble / Lanzini / Kral next to Soucek instead of Rice, b) our academy captain plays in the position we have a gap in and needs opportunities if he's going to break through, c) this isn't a one off game - it's likely going to be Chelsea, Frankfurt, Arsenal and Frankfurt at least.

Lukerz

But do you not gain other attributes in midfield? Whilst you lose some that Rice has, you surely gain some he doesn’t? Rice can’t cut open defences with his passing like Lanzini & Fornals. He can’t break the lines between midfield & defence. He can’t pick up a pocket of space between the two lines. Lanzini & Fornals can’t ball-win like Rice or drive forward over longer distances. Swings & roundabouts.

I also think making him so crucial to our midfield is not great for the long term. What happens when he inevitably moves on? We need alternatives. Clearly he’s a fantastic midfield player but he may be needed in defence for now & we have other players who bring other qualities to our midfield. Whether those qualities trump Rice remains to be seen.

nychammer66

“Hopefully we can get them back as quick as we can."
This sounds like one of those throwaway corporate phrases that mean absolutely nothing.

alderz

Lukerz said:

But do you not gain other attributes in midfield? Whilst you lose some that Rice has, you surely gain some he doesn’t? Rice can’t cut open defences with his passing like Lanzini & Fornals. He can’t break the lines between midfield & defence. He can’t pick up a pocket of space between the two lines. Lanzini & Fornals can’t ball-win like Rice or drive forward over longer distances. Swings & roundabouts.

I also think making him so crucial to our midfield is not great for the long term. What happens when he inevitably moves on? We need alternatives. Clearly he’s a fantastic midfield player but he may be needed in defence for now & we have other players who bring other qualities to our midfield. Whether those qualities trump Rice remains to be seen.

But the point is that he is so crucial to midfield right now. If he wasn’t, we wouldn’t all be desperate for him to stay and for us to bring up some better competition and alternatives. The way we play, the way we’ve been successful, has been built on a foundation of two physical box to box midfielders. Yes, Lanzini brings something different, but it’s a different type of game, and our game has been built on something that Lanzini doesn’t bring.