Brighton (H) - Weds 1st December, 7.30pm

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  • Bowen up front
  • edited December 2021
    I really don't think we played that bad tonight and were it not for a great goal we would have held out and won a hard fought but deserved win. I agree the second goal should have stood and there is no way that can be said to have touched Antonio for sure, which is what the decision is stating. We have issues for sure but we are still looking very good at times. Had Brighton not scored from a goal that you couldn't really do much about I would have said enjoyable, hard fought and deserved win.

    On the positive. Rice must surely be the best player ever at the club, I know that is a big statement but if alongside each other today there would be no contest with Bobby Moore as we know that just fitness and strength developments alone would ensure Bobby couldn't match him' but if we look at influence upon a match within their time I don't think even Bobby had the repertoire of skills and ability to influence a game that Rice has. I actually feel you could put Rice anywhere on the pitch and he would perform to a very high standard, centre back, midfield or centre forward, he is just very good at so many things and just seems to still be getting better

    I agree Antonio is off the pace and I have always felt his decision to to play for Jamaica would cost us.

    I agree Lanzini has earned his place in the starting line up in place of Benrhama now, Benni is so talented but lacks a bit of brain at times which means he chooses the wrong thing when it matters. He can do things others can't and may be an effective sub, coming on for Lanzini or Bowen later in matches.

    Masuaku is much the same, great talent but always worries me as probably the least disciplined player we have and will makes mistakes each match.

    Bowen is great but some reason doesn't find the net when you think he should.
  • I thought we were awful. Really didn't enjoy that at all. Was like we was playing a top 3 team. Need to impose ourselves more. Still having a good season though.
  • Thank goodness Antonio hasn't played in every one of the Europa League matches as god knows where we would be.
  • edited December 2021
    Hamstew said:

    I thought we were awful. Really didn't enjoy that at all. Was like we was playing a top 3 team. Need to impose ourselves more. Still having a good season though.

    Same. I'm still quite cross actually.

    The striker situation has irked me for a long time. Antonio has done really well under Moyes but he's an all or nothing kind of player; when he's good, he's really good, but when he's bad, he's League 1 standard, IMO. We've needed cover/competition since Haller left but just haven't addressed it, which is poor. Bowen, as good as he is on the wing, isn't clinical enough to be a PL centre forward. His conversion rate this season is 14%, which is very low. Antonio, himself not known as the most clinical of strikers, is at 43% and Josh King - who a lot of fans turned their noses up at - is at 44%. Even Joelinton is at 16%.

    I honestly think that any PL club, let alone one that starts the season in four competitions, needs at least two out-and-out strikers at the club. Failure to prepare is preparing to fail.

    Last night's result wasn't purely down to Antonio, obviously, but the lack of options to change it up up front certainly had an impact, IMO. Antonio wasn't playing well but there was no-one to replace him, particularly against Duffy and Dunk. When Antonio can't out-muscle a centre back, he really struggles, and it would have been a big ask for Perkins to come and make an impression against two strong, experienced pros.

    I think we also suffer at left back when Cresswell isn't playing. Johnson is an ok replacement, but how many times did he have the option to cross with his left last night, only to cut back onto his right? Masuaku is clearly not trusted there (rightly so, IMO) so again, lack of options impacted our performance.

    Rice's performance was the only positive on the night, but even that is bitter-sweet. As much as he loves the club, he wants CL football and with the top three pulling away, I can't see us holding off Arsenal and Man U for 4th. Will he settle for another EL campaign (at best) with us if Man City are looking for Fernandinho's replacement?
  • Wow this forum’s sounding a bit a Spurs forum.
    We’re 4th in the league, last 16 of Europa and in the 1/4 finals of the league cup.Just let that sink in for a bit eh, before criticising a young full back for one bad cross, or a striker who had an off night.
    This is West Ham we’re talking about not Chelsea. I think some need to get a a grip.

  • Slacker, this is an opinions forum. People should be able to state their opinions without being told to 'get a grip'.

    And there was no criticism of Johnson, by the way; just an opinion that he struggles at left back. If anything it was a criticism of Moyes for playing someone out of position.

    We're fourth in the league on merit, absolutely, and the players and Moyes have received plenty of praise on here for it. And because we're fourth, there's nothing wrong, IMO at least, with being disappointed with a home draw against Brighton.
  • You’re right of course about opinions, and my opinion is there are are some very odd ones on here. Is that ok to have that opinion?
  • Antonio has been poor for a number of games and has had more rest than the rest of the usual first 11.

    I also heavily dislike the fact that Brighton.... of all teams is completely dictating the game away from home.
  • Slacker said:

    You’re right of course about opinions, and my opinion is there are are some very odd ones on here. Is that ok to have that opinion?

    Of course it is. And I'm all for a good debate; just don't appreciate the accusation of digging out Johnson or the implication that those unhappy with the performance need to 'get a grip'.

    On your point about Antonio having an 'off night', I think he's been struggling for a while now. His early season form got him plenty of (deserved) praise, so it's fair game for his drop in form to be commented on.

    As with Johnson though, I'm not blaming the player necessary - all players will have a dip - my frustration is more with Moyes and the board who didn't, IMO, take the necessary action in the summer re the left back and striker positions.

  • I also heavily dislike the fact that Brighton.... of all teams is completely dictating the game away from home.

    I think this would be ok, if were clinical with our chances. Conceding possession, even at home to Brighton, isn't a huge problem if our counter attacks are productive. I don't think there would be many complaints if we ended the game with 30% possession and a 3-1 win.

    Which is what we were doing last season; Lingard, Bowen and Antonio were brilliant on the break. We've done well in patches this season, but as stated earlier, Bowen's conversion rate is well down on last season, and when you compare Lingard's conversion rate from last season (41%) with Benrahma's this season (33%), you can see that we've not been as clinical in the final third so far this time round.
  • Just put on match of the day (recorded) to hear lineker say the top 3 all in action tonight. Sorry you plum, the top 4 were all in action. Oh I forgot it’s West Ham who obviously have no right to be there and as such don’t count. >:)
  • I think everyone on here is proud of how well we're doing but I do agree with the frustration at lack of striker options and how we ,sometimes ,seem to put square pegs in round holes. Disappointed that we didn't see the game out and were sloppy at times but I'm still well chuffed at how we're doing.
  • Slacker said:

    You’re right of course about opinions, and my opinion is there are are some very odd ones on here. Is that ok to have that opinion?

    Of course it is. And I'm all for a good debate; just don't appreciate the accusation of digging out Johnson or the implication that those unhappy with the performance need to 'get a grip'.

    On your point about Antonio having an 'off night', I think he's been struggling for a while now. His early season form got him plenty of (deserved) praise, so it's fair game for his drop in form to be commented on.

    As with Johnson though, I'm not blaming the player necessary - all players will have a dip - my frustration is more with Moyes and the board who didn't, IMO, take the necessary action in the summer re the left back and striker positions.
    So you think we’ve kind of “lucked” our way so far with the squad and decisions of the manager and that you were right all along?

  • For the offside, as I understand it, if the defender makes an effort to play the ball and it deflects to an opponent in an 'offside' position then that is deemed to be not offside. In this case the ball seemed to hit Duffy so making Antonio offside after it deflects off his leg/foot. Antonio also seemed to run away quietly claiming it.

    Overall a poor performance due in the main to Antonio and Benrahma being unable to keep any sort of possession and so allowing Brighton, who play some nice football, to have so much possession that they were likely to score. The bringing on of Masuaku made sense as we needed his pace to try and counter Lamptey but taking Fornals off was, imo, an error and it should have been Antonio who once again was pretty much a waste of space.

    It's not the end of the world drawing with Brighton and losing to Wolves and City, when maintaining a foot in all three games, but our expectations have probably risen a bit too high. Two defeats and two draws in eleven games is not much of a blip imo so no reason to keep harking back to the lack of ST and LB situation. You either trust Moyes when he said he couldn't get the players he wanted, or you don't. I know who I trust.

    Bring on the Chavs.

    COYI
  • edited December 2021
    Slacker said:

    Slacker said:

    You’re right of course about opinions, and my opinion is there are are some very odd ones on here. Is that ok to have that opinion?

    Of course it is. And I'm all for a good debate; just don't appreciate the accusation of digging out Johnson or the implication that those unhappy with the performance need to 'get a grip'.

    On your point about Antonio having an 'off night', I think he's been struggling for a while now. His early season form got him plenty of (deserved) praise, so it's fair game for his drop in form to be commented on.

    As with Johnson though, I'm not blaming the player necessary - all players will have a dip - my frustration is more with Moyes and the board who didn't, IMO, take the necessary action in the summer re the left back and striker positions.
    So you think we’ve kind of “lucked” our way so far with the squad and decisions of the manager and that you were right all along?


    To an extent, yes. But only in as much as all teams rely on an element of luck.

    For example, I think we've been lucky that Cresswell hasn't been injured so far, because when he's not in the team our performance on the left flank is compromised by having to play a right back there. Had Johnson been at LB all season, we may not be 4th right now.

    But there's luck and then there's planning, and that's where I think the manager and the board have made a mistake. Not saying I'm right or wrong because I'm stating an opinion rather than a fact.
  • edited December 2021
    Slacker, I don't think it's a case of OCS being right all along as a few of us have been on the clubs case for not getting another striker in for the last couple of windows & a new LB has also been called for. IF we are going to compete with the BIG clubs we need better cover which based on our last three league games we haven't got. The funds spent on Vlasic, good as I hope he will be, could have got us cover for Cresswell and gone some way to getting in a back up for Antonio.
  • If we're going to compete with the big clubs we will have needed to spend at least.£300m. A LB and ST isn't the difference.
  • This is it Fortune. Last season was so good and the EL was the perfect reward. I think we all realise the importance of maintaining top 6 in terms of keeping the likes of Rice, Soucek etc. and attracting players like Zouma, and to give us the best chance of doing that I felt like we needed a couple more players in the summer.

    We all know it's a squad game nowadays, and bringing in Kral addressed one of the concerns (although I'm surprised he hasn't played more, to be honest), but I still think we're light in some areas and, as you say, that's shown over the last few games.
  • IronHerb said:

    If we're going to compete with the big clubs we will have needed to spend at least.£300m. A LB and ST isn't the difference.


    We demonstrated last season that we could compete with the big clubs without spending that amount of money.

    I would have thought a better left back than Johnson and another striker would at least improve us and our chances of competing further.
  • I think my point is made for me.
    We are not a big club, we have limited funds therefore we have to have a shrewd manager to get the most out of what’s available .
    A poor performance here and there is always going to happen BECAUSE WE’RE WEST HAM!
    I just don’t get the “well we’ve always needed x y & z” just because we’ve hit a slightly iffy patch

    We did fantastically well last season and if we get anywhere near that again it will be a marvellous achievement.
  • edited December 2021
    Slacker said:


    A poor performance here and there is always going to happen BECAUSE WE’RE WEST HAM!

    Of course it's always going to happen. To every club in world football. But fans will always have a right to voice their disappointment when it does happen.

    Slacker said:

    I just don’t get the “well we’ve always needed x y & z” just because we’ve hit a slightly iffy patch

    My view is that we've needed them irrespective of how our form is. Even if we'd won last night I'd still think that we need cover for Antonio and Cresswell. It's not about recent form for me; it's about having a balanced squad that can accommodate injuries and players going off the boil.

    Slacker said:

    We did fantastically well last season and if we get anywhere near that again it will be a marvellous achievement.


    This, at least, we can agree on =)
  • edited December 2021
    IronHerb said:

    Two defeats and two draws in eleven games is not much of a blip

    You could spin that and say Two defeats and one draw in our last 3 matches though.

    Still, it has been a very good start and better than I'd thought..

    Pity that Antonio and Benrahama are very much out of form, and for quite a while now IMO

    Benrahama can easily and IMO should have been replaced afew matches back by Lanzini, Antonio, sadly not so easy to fix....

    COYI
  • LAAAAAAAAAWWWWRRROOOOOO!!!
  • I thought Lanzini was a real positive last night. He really wants to be playing more, and deserves to be.
  • jay said
    You could spin that and say Two defeats and one draw in our last 3 matches though.

    But it's one win, one draw and one defeat in our last three games.
  • IronHerb said:

    jay said
    You could spin that and say Two defeats and one draw in our last 3 matches though.

    But it's one win, one draw and one defeat in our last three games.

    You could also say that it was better to go win,loss,draw than three draws and going on an unbeaten run.

    It’s just because we are West Ham and therefore got the results the wrong way round it is so frustrating. You could argue that we are over achieving in some areas
    Liverpool - expected loss ?- WIN
    Wolves - expected draw? - LOSS
    Brighton - expected win?- DRAW

    4 points either way.
  • edited December 2021
    IronHerb said:

    jay said
    You could spin that and say Two defeats and one draw in our last 3 matches though.

    But it's one win, one draw and one defeat in our last three games.

    Should have added the PL ...Apologies for the misunderstanding what I meant to mean.
  • Slacker said:


    A poor performance here and there is always going to happen BECAUSE WE’RE WEST HAM!

    Of course it's always going to happen. To every club in world football. But fans will always have a right to voice their disappointment when it does happen.

    Slacker said:

    I just don’t get the “well we’ve always needed x y & z” just because we’ve hit a slightly iffy patch

    My view is that we've needed them irrespective of how our form is. Even if we'd won last night I'd still think that we need cover for Antonio and Cresswell. It's not about recent form for me; it's about having a balanced squad that can accommodate injuries and players going off the boil.

    Slacker said:

    We did fantastically well last season and if we get anywhere near that again it will be a marvellous achievement.


    This, at least, we can agree on =)
    Oh well at the end of the day it’s just football.

  • Apologies, I missed the Man City game out, as it was a game that we thought we’d probably lose anyway.
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