Discussion of 'taking the knee' and related ideas

PrestonHammer

I was joking by the way, most of them probably haven't seen it.

OutcastLondoner

I thought you were joking but actually I think your joke is half way there!

alderz

This isn't great.

https://www.101greatgoals.com/news/i-found-it-absurd-west-hams-tomas-soucek-speaks-out-on-ondrej-kudela-ban-for-racist-abuse-of-rangers-star/

Tomas Soucek said:

“I found it absurd. I can’t imagine him saying anything racist. I see how sensitive the British are to racism every day. Two cultures collide because we think a little differently than they do.”

Fortuneseeker

alderz, He is saying as a lot of Eastern Europeans see it. The key bit is about cultures being different. Although I am not saying it is right I may add. Had first hand experience of holidaying with some friends & we were told not to leave the hotel complex due to the fact that one of our group was black as it would create problems for us with the locals. Some of the players in the eastern block countries get booed by their own fans due to their colour.

alderz

Fortuneseeker said:

alderz, He is saying as a lot of Eastern Europeans see it. The key bit is about cultures being different. Although I am not saying it is right I may add. Had first hand experience of holidaying with some friends & we were told not to leave the hotel complex due to the fact that one of our group was black as it would create problems for us with the locals. Some of the players in the eastern block countries get booed by their own fans due to their colour.

Yeah it’s definitely how a lot of people in Central and Eastern Europe see things, I just wish he’d kept his mouth shut.

MrsGrey

It's a very brief quote. I'd question what the context was and what was said more fully. Also whether the 'absurd' refers to the length of the ban, the ban itself, or how the decision was reached (with the implication being that it was very much a witness-free event - but that's only going off the rest of the article). And whether anything was a bit lost in translation.

I note that he's comment 'I can’t imagine him saying anything racist' ... not that what was alleged to have been said isn't racist in his 'culture'.

IronHerb

More of the Soucek statement.

https://www.kumb.com/story.php?id=135682

MrsGrey

Well, he's got a lot to learn, but at least he says ' That they want to fight racism is right, of course'

baracks_a_hammer

alderz said:

Fortuneseeker said:

alderz, He is saying as a lot of Eastern Europeans see it. The key bit is about cultures being different. Although I am not saying it is right I may add. Had first hand experience of holidaying with some friends & we were told not to leave the hotel complex due to the fact that one of our group was black as it would create problems for us with the locals. Some of the players in the eastern block countries get booed by their own fans due to their colour.

I just wish he’d kept his mouth shut.

So you’d like him to have kept quiet on just the Rangers incident bit or everything else aswell? Because I think he has raised some very debatable issues elsewhere in his interview.

alderz

baracks_a_hammer said:

alderz said:

Fortuneseeker said:

alderz, He is saying as a lot of Eastern Europeans see it. The key bit is about cultures being different. Although I am not saying it is right I may add. Had first hand experience of holidaying with some friends & we were told not to leave the hotel complex due to the fact that one of our group was black as it would create problems for us with the locals. Some of the players in the eastern block countries get booed by their own fans due to their colour.

I just wish he’d kept his mouth shut.

So you’d like him to have kept quiet on just the Rangers incident bit or everything else aswell? Because I think he has raised some very debatable issues elsewhere in his interview.

Specifically the Rangers incident.

But all of it is not ideal, fbh.

MrsGrey

Is that the full interview, or is there more?

MrsGrey

That stuff about 'you can't call a blackboard a blackboard' is Sun tabloid dog whistle rubbish.

Someone needs to set him straight on that.

IronHerb

I don't know what 'Sun tabloid dog whistle rubbish' means. I took it as PC gone mad, which I can believe.

MrsGrey

Honestly. Nobody (sensible) ever said that it's racist to say a 'blackboard'.
Or that it was racist to order a 'black coffee'.

Or that it was offensive to say a 'black tie' event.

That's what I mean about dog whistle ... tabloids and others play on the 'PC gone mad' trope when really they just make stuff up to get a reaction (hence my reference to 'dog whistle').

IronHerb

Thanks MrsG.

OldCastleSwift

MrsGrey said:

That stuff about 'you can't call a blackboard a blackboard' is Sun tabloid dog whistle rubbish.

Someone needs to set him straight on that.

I suppose it depends on whether he's got it from the red tops, or whether his daughter has told him that. Would be interesting to hear from anyone on here with young children as to whether they've heard of such things in UK schools. I too doubt that anyone sensible has said 'blackboard' is racist, but that's not to say that there isn't a fear that someone may construe it as racist and therefore the term's avoided.

yoyo

My Nieces secondary school called the blackboard a chalkboard and if it was referred to as a blackboard ( as my sister did at a parents evening ) or if kids did ( as they may have said it at primary school ) they were corrected by the teachers.

MrsGrey

Yes.

Of course, it would be much better if someone who thought/felt/had been told it was racist could just ask about it, and get clarification/advice from a reputable authority.

If you've been told such rubbish, and believe it, then obviously it's going to affect your views of how racism is tackled and you get the 'it's gone too far' comment or, as Soucek says, 'one is almost too afraid to say anything at all' ...

... because you wouldn't think that (as long as you were genuinely anti-racist) and got some sensible input.

MrsGrey

I challenge ANYONE to come up with a real example of this sort of language being ruled racist under the law .

How many cases have gone to court? How many have been upheld.

None, I'd wager.

IronHerb

But that doesn't stop people sometimes being called racist in such circumstances. Nothing to do with the law.

claretandbluesky

Mis-information is how you gain the support of the simple minded, before you know it they fight for your cause and achieve your aim for you. If you correct them regard their information they are told 'look they are saying you are stupid'! this makes them want to fight even harder. Before you know it you have Boris Johnson as prime minister.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Won't lie, I'm not impressed by Souceks comments

Hes defended someone who, whether through ignorance or arrogance has been accused of Racism (and it seems pretty cut and dry) and has defended them because he doesn't think theyre capable of such a comment.....while also saying that he doesn't really understand it all

I dont understand the whole, in Czech its not such a big deal, as an excuse for it to be allowed

If the minority invovled is not happy with the comments, regardless of its intention it should be an indication that it is an should be intolerable, its an opportunity to educatei nstead of blind defence

Lukerz

I really hope that interview has come across far worse than it should have done

Because if not, that’s bad

MrsGrey

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:

If the minority invovled is not happy with the comments, regardless of its intention it should be an indication that it is an should be intolerable, its an opportunity to educatei nstead of blind defence

I kind of agree ... but education goes both ways. Intention is a factor, imo. And if we are saying that some who (? on the right) think 'stuff' is intolerable might be misguided.. than might not (on the 'progressive side) some on the other side also be misguided... I'm not all that keen on just saying let's have a poll and go with that.

Opportunity to educate/learn .. I'm all in favour of that.

yoyo

Surely we all agree there is no room for any kind of racism or prejudices of any form. Only an idiot would surely believe otherwise.
But thanks to Fifa hereby lies a problem. In 2022. England will play in the World Cup in Qatar.
A country that has the death penalty for homosexuality.
A country where you will receive 100 lashes for adultery.
A country where it’s illegal to import alcohol, pornography, pork products or even opposing religious books, for fear of a prison sentence. Are our players going to boycott playing in a country like this? What on earth were Fifa thinking ? Well we all know what Blatter was thinking.

IronHerb

Not to mention - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57443375

thornburyiron

Yoyo you know unequivocally that players will not boycott playing in Qatar and I’ve not seen one comment from Southgate, FA or any player that they will do so nor from any pundit that they should do so. In fact they’re keenly looking forward to the qualifiers.
Maybe the taking the knee would have a greater impact if the World Cup issue was brought up. It’s one thing saying they’re vehemently opposed to racism or any kind of prejudice or inequality whilst at th3 same time turning a blind eye to it when it suits.

yoyo

Totally agree and there lies the problem. If players are going tp become political pawns ( not the best analogy but I couldn't think of the word ) Then they have to keep it up and see it through. Shameful that the world cup is there in the first place. The world shouldn't promote such countries , although it's never stopped formula 1

OldCastleSwift

Soucek has responded to the criticism:

MrsGrey