International Break - teams and games

alderz

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56586894

Rice talking about England, but also talking about how he has studied Yaya Toure, and wants to be recognised as someone who can drive his team up the pitch.

claretandbluesky

I think he is right. In a more attacking side he is more than capable of that. We often look to counter which doesn't allow him to be such an attacking influence.

OldCastleSwift

Rice is having another very good game. Got a little highlight reel at half-time, too.

Roy Keane continues to be snippy and begrudgingly complimentary about him, which makes it even better.

ScotHammer

I do realise we all have a slight “bias” towards certain team(s) and players, especially the pundits, but did anyone else think the England penalty was quite soft. I’d be disappointed if It was given against the Hammers.

Yeoldhammer

Same defensive mistakes from England. Every time we come across a half decent team, a centre back seems to have some kind of huge brain fart.

Yeoldhammer

Also Phillips having a shocker, not much better than Dier in that position which is saying a lot.

Yeoldhammer

Losing faith with Southgate. The lack of subs is atrocious, in tournament football subs are monumental, especially a tournament at the end of a regular football season !

steve

Never really had Faith with southgate .Lucky lucky England should be there new name

Yeoldhammer

First sub is a defender on, at home, to a weakened Poland side. Southgate so lucky.

Hamstew

I think the only thing I'd say is we are missing quite a few players that he could swap around in an attacking sense. Sancho, Rashford, Grealish, Madison and even Ward-Prowse all out but I do agree Lingard could and should have come on sooner as I don't think Sterling or Foden were particularly great today.

OldCastleSwift

From the BBC:

"And at the heart of it all was West Ham United's Declan Rice, knitting play together in midfield, not merely breaking up attacks but showing a willingness to start them as well. The 22-year-old looks the complete operator, growing in stature with every game.

Rice is a certain starter when England open their Euro 2020 campaign against Croatia at Wembley on 13 June and he demonstrated once more what a crucial figure he will be in manager Southgate's plans."

We really need to appreciate every game this lad plays for West Ham, because he won't be around for too much longer. Such a good player and heading to the very top.

Hamstew

He got player of the match again. Is rice still on a low wage?

whupathman

could have been worse, Germany lost at home to North Macedonia

claretandbluesky

I didn't see the match but one BBC report described Rice as indispensable. I know I am biased but I consider him the most valuable English player in the Premiership. If we ever want to try and move to that much talked about 'next level' I doubt we will have a better chance than we currently do. If the owners want to have one last push to leave a positive mark on the club, keep Rice next season, give Moyes as much as you can and let's see what happens.

OldCastleSwift

Hamstew said:

He got player of the match again. Is rice still on a low wage?

Relatively, yes. Something like £35k p/w I think. That really needs to be addressed in the summer.

whupathman

I see the April fools is the three lions being re released by Pearce, Rice and Lingard lol

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

Rice will be the next England captain IMO. A class act and getting better every week.

Slacker

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

Rice will be the next England captain IMO. A class act and getting better every week.

I loved the way he directs more senior players where to pass etc. His head is on a swivel and his awareness is superb.
I agree he looks like a captain in all but name.

Clactonite

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

Rice will be the next England captain IMO. A class act and getting better every week.

I think he will be too as he seems to be the go to when it comes to press interviews these days. He’s a lot more articulate than Kane.

yoyo

It's easy to get carried away but on this occasion I don't think we are. He's on his way to becoming ( potentially) West Ham's
most influential English player since Bobby Moore. He's class

alderz

I hope we offer him a new five year deal on much bigger wages this summer. We could even include a release clause for £100m or something just to show our valuation and let him know that if a club REALLY wants him they can get him.

steve

Ya YA Ya England won ......Now lets get back to the real stuff ,Where is the Wolves thread

claretandbluesky

alderz said:

I hope we offer him a new five year deal on much bigger wages this summer. We could even include a release clause for £100m or something just to show our valuation and let him know that if a club REALLY wants him they can get him.

I think the release clause would need be bigger as I think 100m is what he is worth and probably not too far off what we could get even now. I think it would need be 120m at least so that it's at least a little prohibitive but does offer him certainty if a really big club want him enough.

I think he should be made the highest paid player at the club, made permanent Captain and a release clause of 120-125m.

alderz

IMO we wouldn’t get £100m for him. I think he’s worth it, but the only deals that big or even close to that big are for attacking players and I can’t see people spending that much.

If he goes at some point I reckon we’ll get like £80m for him. For me, the release clause is there to show that we value him, that it’s not beyond the realms of possibility, but is unlikely. Anything over £100m is, IMO, very, very unrealistic, and we may as well not put it in the contract (which is fine too tbh)

OutcastLondoner

I think if Ndidi gets sold this summer it might be a sign of what Rice could sell for. They're about the same quality imo, though slightly different in how they play the role but Rice will have the English premium. I think with the way teams play, the DM role is becoming really important. Every big team apart from Liverpool (they have Fabinho) need one, so it could be the next position to have an insane fee like the VVD and Maguire transfers.

ASLEFshrugged

I don't think £100m is an overestimation

Maguire cost £80m in 2019 aged 26, Van Dijk £75m in 2018 aged 27. How much is a 22yo DM/CM who has already established himself as an England regular worth in 2021?

MrsGrey

ASLEFshrugged said:

I don't think £100m is an overestimation

Maguire cost £80m in 2019 aged 26, Van Dijk £75m in 2018 aged 27. How much is a 22yo DM/CM who has already established himself as an England regular worth in 2021?

It's all relative and there's no intrinsic worth.

Maguire cost Man U £80m, because that's what he was worth to them at that point ( even though they allegedly could have got him for 70 the year before when he was obviously not worth that). VVD cost Liverpool £75m because that's what he was worth to them. At the time. And it's what they could pay.

I think if Rice was sold this summer he'd not achieve anywhere near the eyewatering sums people are talking about.
If he continues to Impress, and adds the 'driving forward and chipping in with goals' and his current team becomes a more consistent contender in the top half ( or 3rd) of the table, and clubs finances recover from the pandemic, then maybe.

OutcastLondoner

I think with Rice it's about what he's worth to us. There's no point selling at what he's worth to others. A bit like Zaha having a ridiculous price tag. Even though it sounds mad, I think a release clause should be a bit higher than you'd think because you're forced to a accept the offer at that point, right? You can lose control of negotiation at a time when it doesn't suit you.

Also, if we're setting it, it's not for this season imo but for the season after, when he might have added the attacking element to his game. If next season he starts playing like Yaya or Viera, as he said he wants to, that's easily a £100m player.

I agree with what you say about intrinsic worth which is why I think Rice might be worth more than he naturally would. A lot of teams need someone like him and the only other player in his bracket in the league, I think, is Ndidi. Kante as well but he won't be bought by anyone in this league and has had his injuries/problems fitting in with some of the Chelsea managers.

claretandbluesky

I hope that clubs will think he is not worth the sums we are talking about because I can't see the club letting him go for less when he still has three years left on his contract this summer. I think it takes an eye watering sum this summer. Next summer we may have to be pragmatic and accept a sum less eye watering as he will only have two years left. Hopefully we can show intent and tempt him with a contract.

IronHerb

We just have to give him a new and extended contract asap. That way his value is maintained.