West Ham V Arsenal (H) Sun 21st March

Fortuneseeker

As a few have said earlier Jesse Lingard brings a different mentality to the team he is not used to a team trying to defend a lead so much but expects them to keep attacking to score more goals.

alderz

I've seen a few conversations like this recently:

PERSON ONE: Player X looks knackered.
PERSON TWO: Player X sprinted around a lot, so can't be that knackered.

My view on this, FWIW, is that Rice, Soucek and Others are not so knackered they can't run around - they are incredibly fit athletes. To me, they look tired in that their speed in getting back into position is sometimes slower than it ordinarily is. Sometimes their passing isn't as slick as it once was, their finishing or tackling isn't as clean as before. I think there is a real difference between you or I being knackered (i.e. I went for a run yesterday and today it feels like my legs are two big plastic bags filled with custard) vs professional footballers being knackered and losing 5-10% off their game.

Yeoldhammer

MrsGrey said:

I'm disappointed we didn't get all 3 points. But I had no expectation of a win. Even at 3-0 up there was a lot of game to go and Arsenal are a quality side, who if they play to their best would be expected to beat us. So I'm not devastated.

When we drew with Spurs I credited it to good play, mentality and determination. I didn't dismiss the draw as only achieved because Spurs 'folded' - I gave 100% of the credit to West Ham for the result.

I can't not do that now. So, you know..

I can't agree with a lot of the reaction expressed by other posters.

Thats where i would say Spurs folded, conceding 3 goals in 10 minutes is a joke. A team that was by in large cruising for 90% of that game.

alderz

MrsGrey said:

I'm disappointed we didn't get all 3 points. But I had no expectation of a win. Even at 3-0 up there was a lot of game to go and Arsenal are a quality side, who if they play to their best would be expected to beat us. So I'm not devastated.

When we drew with Spurs I credited it to good play, mentality and determination. I didn't dismiss the draw as only achieved because Spurs 'folded' - I gave 100% of the credit to West Ham for the result.

I can't not do that now. So, you know..

I can't agree with a lot of the reaction expressed by other posters.

Can it not be true that a team that conceded a 3 goal lead messed up, and that a team that fought back from 3 goals down played with good mentality, skill and determination? I think those things aren't mutually exclusive, and IMO there is at least an element of the team giving up the lead showing a lack of good mentality, skill and determination once getting into the 3 goal lead.

We deserved to come back against Spurs on the balance of play. Arsenal deserved to come back against us on the balance of play. But a team being so heavily in the lead and on top allowing the scales to tip so far back the other way does open them up for criticism, warranted criticism, IMO.

chicagohammer

That run by Rice would have made goal of the season, on a par with Son’s solo effort but from a defensive midfielder!

What worries me is why did he feel he had to make that run? our defensive set up and mind set really left him with no other choice but to go it alone, at the end he could have fed Antonio but understandably by then the red mist would have firmly descended.

What was impressive to me was that his strike was so well struck and on target.

We were left without viable options in midfield and I think it unfortunate that Fornals was not available on the day, points to our lack of strength in depth.

Fortuneseeker

https://www.caughtoffside.com/2021/03/22/keith-hackett-column-jon-moss-cost-west-ham-vs-arsenal-and-referees-should-be-dropped-for-their-mistakes/

I appreciate Mr Hackett isn't the most popular person in our FA Cup history but the point he is making is valid IMHO.

IronHerb

So Lingard was 100% going to score?

There's only one thing worse than a poor referee and that is another poor referee criticising a referee.

CleverTrevor

The bit I’m still confused about is the build up to Dawson’s OG. I can accept that it wasn’t a free kick to us us as Bowen went down far too easily but why did Moss give the free kick to Arsenal? I’m assuming it was for handball but the replay clearly showed the ball hit his side. Would VAR not have looked at that?

As you can probably tell I’m still very frustrated by the result!!

Fortuneseeker

IronHerb, It's all down to opinions, no one can say he was 100% certain not going to score. I don't have a problem with former referees digging out the current ones if they find as some have been proved this season many times are not up to it. Possible 4-1 becomes 3-2 in a short space of time. I expect Hackett was questioned about his decision to send Tony Gale off in the Semi Final @ Villa Park. Halsey, Clattenburg & Walton are all asked for their opinions on various incidents these days. It is nice when they don't just defend the officials actions with blind allegiance. If I made an error at work I would be taken to task and asked to explain it.

BubblesNeverDies

IronHerb said:

So Lingard was 100% going to score?

Well Moss made certain Lingard was 0% going to score.

claretandbluesky

I think Bowen went down far too easily twice, the first in the opening exchanges when he could have made an attempt at goal but appeared to look for a penalty, could easily have been booked for diving. The second one gave away the freekick which led to the goal.

OldCastleSwift

claretandbluesky said:

I think Bowen went down far too easily twice, the first in the opening exchanges when he could have made an attempt at goal but appeared to look for a penalty, could easily have been booked for diving. The second one gave away the freekick which led to the goal.

I mentioned the first one during the game. I think it's a sign of a lack of confidence that he'd rather try and get the foul then take his man on or get a shot away.

Hopefully the goal will give him a boost, and I certainly wouldn't put him in the cheat category.

ASLEFshrugged

OldCastleSwift said:

claretandbluesky said:

I think Bowen went down far too easily twice, the first in the opening exchanges when he could have made an attempt at goal but appeared to look for a penalty, could easily have been booked for diving. The second one gave away the freekick which led to the goal.

I mentioned the first one during the game. I think it's a sign of a lack of confidence that he'd rather try and get the foul then take his man on or get a shot away.

Hopefully the goal will give him a boost, and I certainly wouldn't put him in the cheat category.

Several of us did

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:

Good movement from Bowen but poor in the end, went down under nothing

ASLEFshrugged said:

Oh Vic



I've fallen

Bowen has done that a bit too often this season, he's good enough to run at defences and we don't need a Zaha/Grealish/Kane

IronHerb

He's nothing like any of the above.

jay_in_cpt

Can u imagine them 3 in a team ....like the refs whistle might pack up...

chicagohammer

You would to change the club anthem to “ring a ring a roses” etc

alderz

I’m not sure how true it is, but I’ve read online that Jon Moss apologised at half time and after the game for allowing our second goal to stand, as the free kick was taken “too quickly” and the “wrong place”. If that’s the case, it may explain why his decisions were so drastically pro-Arsenal in the second half

OldCastleSwift

Maybe, but then someone should tell him that two wrongs don't make a right.

Garbage referee.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

Any comment on their second goal where the ball was moving for the quick free-kick? Did he let that happen deliberately, or not see it from ten yards away?

epsom_bubbles

The tv showed it was definitely not moving. They played it enough times. He should have apologised for stopping the game when we had a clear advantage

thornburyiron

There was no question about whether it was moving or not but that it was taken too quickly. These days refs rarely allow a quick free kick but insist you wait for the whistle.

claretandbluesky

It did look like he was trying to even it up. I hate it when referees do that. Just ref the game and do your best with each given incident.

Moss looks like he should be retiring soon anyhow, looks a bit out of shape and past it I thought. He is 50 and that's got to be hard keeping up with the pace of a premiership match.

thornburyiron

They need to be fit. They cover an average 11km per match. More than a lot of players.

MrsGrey

11k in 90mins really is not very demanding at all. It's not much more than jogging.

It's the sprinting that is the real test.

The referee can be a bit distant from the ball, so don't have to sprint in the same way that the players do. But at times they DO have to sprint, so need to be fit enough for that.

claretandbluesky

11km per match! Haller is never going to make a referee upon retirement. Although could do a really impressive backflip now and again to catch an incident occurring behind him, which would always leave the crowd wondering if perhaps he could make a referee after all.

Soucek would be refereeing a 3pm and 5.30pm kick off on the same day.

BubblesNeverDies

claretandbluesky said:

11km per match! Haller is never going to make a referee upon retirement. Although could do a really impressive backflip now and again to catch an incident occurring behind him, which would always leave the crowd wondering if perhaps he could make a referee after all.

Soucek would be refereeing a 3pm and 5.30pm kick off on the same day.

After having played 90minutes in a 12.30 kick-off match.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

We need a Wolves thread.

Lukerz

Somebody is gonna need to do it...

Can’t have no pre match chat 48 hours before the game!!