West Ham v Man City, Saturday 24th October, 12.30

thornburyiron

At the beginning of the season we were pinning our hopes on 3 points from Newcastle because we expected 0 from our next 6.
How contrary can a team be.

baracks_a_hammer

Yes, I am now starting the get worried about the Fulham game. Liverpool away will be a walk in the park.

Lukerz

Is there any footage of the penalty appeal? I didn’t get to see the second half.

alderz

Was just on MOTD, and I tell you what it looks like a pen to me. Micah Richards said he’s seen them given

ScotHammer

Lukerz said:

Is there any footage of the penalty appeal? I didn’t get to see the second half.

Try MOTD on iPlayer

Cuz1

I didn’t think it was at first but looking in slow mo I believe it was

Lukerz

If it’s the one in the first half, that was a blatant penalty. He slides in, doesn’t get the ball & trips him.

claretandbluesky

in my view VAR should have called that a penalty every day, commits a foul before getting the ball, if you are going to slide tackle in the area your timing has to be perfect and his timing was wrong so got the player first. I would have liked the operator to offer a justification for that as I can't find one.

alderz

I don’t think I’ve heard anyone from the club mention it either? Usually you’d hear the manager saying we should have had a pen

buffybegood

MOTD were really low key on the penalty claim, as alderz says Micah Richards says he's seen them given just as part of a compilation of chances, rather than a genuine analysis of the incident. To me it's a stonewall penalty, there's definitely significant contact before he gets near the ball, surely this is what VAR is there for. The ref didn't have the best of views but the front on view (the camera behind the goal) shows what happens clearly.

There's still a huge amount of interpretation involved in VAR, to me this was a clear foul with an unsighted ref, so he needs to be told that he needs to have another look at it. However, it was only for West Ham, so not worthy of being an obvious error.

I'll also say that Maguire was very lucky to get away with not giving away a penalty against Chelsea imo.

whupathman

At least our goal stood and it was a worldy

EXETERHAMMER

I am still flummoxed by the non yellow card for the foul on Rice. Absolutely no debate on that

buffybegood

EXETERHAMMER said:

I am still flummoxed by the non yellow card for the foul on Rice. Absolutely no debate on that

Yeah, wasn't even included in the coverage of the match. It's a definite yellow, simply no argument. Again, down to whatever his issues with us as a club are, he should never be allowed to ref us imo.

BubblesNeverDies

As I didn't see the game, can someone tell me when was the incident with Gundogan?

OutcastLondoner

He became very attached to Rice’s arm during a counter attack

Expat_Hammer

OutcastLondoner said:

He became very attached to Rice’s arm during a counter attack

The way he was pulling at it, I think he wanted to swap shirts with him during the first half

OldCastleSwift

BubblesNeverDies said:

As I didn't see the game, can someone tell me when was the incident with Gundogan?

Rice was away in the middle of the pitch, Gundogan pulled him back by the arm. 100% a booking in the modern game, and Rice on Gundogan and it probably would have been.

We picked up a couple of really innocuous yellows, too (Coufal and Balbuena), where the latter clearly got the ball and we were actually through on goal.

I always worry whenever Taylor refs our games.

buffybegood

OldCastleSwift said:

I always worry whenever Taylor refs our games.

I do aswell, he's made some shocking decisions against us; I genuinely believe he has an issue with us. I think the lino flagged this, but the ref always has the right to over-rule, especially given the chance to go back if, for instance, we scored and VAR checked it.

claretandbluesky

If they are measuring off side so clearly surely it wouldn't have been so difficult to tell that he blatantly made contact with Antonio before the ball. The Maguire one is also an obvious foul.

In my view VAR is becoming a tool that the operators are now in danger of becoming afraid of and so it's value will be lost.

OutcastLondoner

Think we had the same problems last season. Really pedantic offside rulings while not acting on a lot of quite obvious penalties.

alderz

re: Gundogan on Rice, I think that had the ref given the foul he would have booked him, because you absolutely have to. But he played advantage, which gave him a moment to remember that he was going to have to book a Man City player, and that is illegal

buffybegood

alderz said:

re: Gundogan on Rice, I think that had the ref given the foul he would have booked him, because you absolutely have to. But he played advantage, which gave him a moment to remember that he was going to have to book a Man City player, and that is illegal

That about sums it up imo. It was quite correct to play advantage in that situation, but absolutely no excuse not to book him at the next break of play. Appalling reffing as usual from Taylor against us.

Expat_Hammer

Maybe the Sunday Times is onto something here, regarding that foul.

It was a vignette that perfectly demonstrated how big teams have weaponised the tactical foul and how painfully inadequate the present rules and referees are at disincentivizing it

Lukerz

I was only able to watch the first half & felt we were as comfortable as can be against Man City. We scored a good goal, used the ball well when we had it & clearly made a tactical switch to get the ball forward quickly over the midfield.

Was nice to hear that we battled away second half & really, other than the final 10 mins, didn’t really look like we were on the ropes too often. Fair play to the side. 8 points from those 6 games (with a plus 4 GD) is one hell of a return, given we took 0 from them last season.

If we can finish the horror run off with a good display at Liverpool, then we can focus on some more winnable games but that will pose a very different set of challenges for this side. Will be less about character & grit & more about quality.

BubblesNeverDies

Just watched the match and, as has been asked already, how on Earth was the Gundogan foul not a yellow card?
Even Hoddle agreed that it deserved a yellow.

And then there was the Maguire armlock on Azpilacueta.

Common thread - two Manc teams getting away with it.

What is the point of VAR if it doesn't instruct the on-field referee to check his monitor.
It so smacks of referees closing ranks to protect each other.
And I really think that referees need to explain their decisions that are so blatantly wrong .and why they have not used their monitor.

alderz

Expat_Hammer said:

Maybe the Sunday Times is onto something here, regarding that foul.

It was a vignette that perfectly demonstrated how big teams have weaponised the tactical foul and how painfully inadequate the present rules and referees are at disincentivizing it

I’ve never understood how tactical fouls are applauded as game management, taking one for the team, doing whatever it takes to win, etc, whilst diving is vilified. It’s the same thing, it’s cheating to gain an advantage for their team

buffybegood

BubblesNeverDies said:

Just watched the match and, as has been asked already, how on Earth was the Gundogan foul not a yellow card?
Even Hoddle agreed that it deserved a yellow.

And then there was the Maguire armlock on Azpilacueta.

Common thread - two Manc teams getting away with it.

What is the point of VAR if it doesn't instruct the on-field referee to check his monitor.
It so smacks of referees closing ranks to protect each other.
And I really think that referees need to explain their decisions that are so blatantly wrong .and why they have not used their monitor.

AFAIK, the decision to consult the monitor is largely with the VAR operator. Also, as things stand, I don't think VAR can examine fouls unless they are potentially going to result in a red card, so the Gundogan foul wouldn't be in its remit. However, I fully agree that refs, and VAR refs should be fully accountable and should have to face the press in the same way as managers have to.

alderz

I’m pretty sure it’s outside of VAR remit, but I definitely think the ref should be explaining that decision, because frankly it was appalling. And because it was a yellow (or not) nobody talks about it

alderz

Just saw on Instagram that Yarmolenko and his wife had a baby overnight. I wonder if his head was a elsewhere a bit on Saturday?

steve

The babys head was elsewhere ,That does not sound good