Hi all. First time posting on here. I didnt see the game but I was wondering if our faults were the same as I thought we had last year? I always thought our defence was always weaker because of our midfield. We have great attack midfielders but no athletic midfielders to help Rice and our defence. I thought a cm should be our priority this season. Obviously that was before Arnie went. What's everyone's thoughts and was this shown in the game today? Sorry for the long the post!
Well it won't if we don't change the personnel. Plus our best defender hasn't kicked a ball yet.
I think what today has proven, for me at least, is that some of our defenders are not top 6 quality. Zaba, Cresswell and Ogbonna will only get worse, so I think to really challenge the top 6 we would need to replace them. I suspect Johnson has done enough already to be considered ahead of Zaba and Cresswell as back-up full back.
Also, if Pellegrini wants our fullbacks to push forward, it's essential that they're covered by a good defensive midfielder. Rice we know is just that, but Sanchez is a liability and if Obiang goes, we need to invest that money into a much better option than Sanchez.
The first step would appear to be needing to play catch up on the likes of Wolves. Defensively there is little evidence of that. Our first choice defence might just about be ok, but the moment any of them are not available I would certainly worry.
I know Jorderz. But ultimately that's our ambition. European football is a must if we want to keep our better players.
We'll never achieve that with the defenders we have. We've spent big up front to try to break into that top 6 and I would argue Anderson and, from what I've seen and heard of them, Fornals and Haller, could play at that level, but Diop aside, I can't see any of our defenders being of that standard.
Early days but it would have been nice to see a few moments of promise. Alas very little on show .I hope the "real " first eleven can hit the ground running ( city match excluded! ). I wouldn't confidently say there's been much improvement from last year. We must look more solid and harder to breakdown, then hope the front lads can turn it on. Our strength in depth worries me.
I've had a bit of time to calm down over this results. I think myself and possibly a few others on here are getting carried away. Yes we didn't look very good at all but: A) Teams have off-days - this may have been one of them for us We weren't playing a full strength team in the first half. Second half we looked a bit better C) Perhaps the players weren't going fully at it D) I think with the big signings we've made in Haller and Fornals, it's excited many of us (me included) and perhaps raised our expectations slightly.
As I say, it is a little worrying how poor we looked (especially Cresswell, Ogbonna, Lanzini, Yarmolenko and Sanchez) but I'm still not going to read into it too much.
An observation as a fan I've noticed is Cresswell is very quick to put his hands in the air/complain when we make a mistake and almost looks like it's quick to blame his teammates. Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick watching from my computer though.
I much prefer our solid 'workers' of the team in Noble, RIce, Snodgrass etc to the more flashy creatives of Lanzini, Yarmolenko etc. Obviously we need some creatives but I think we'll actually create more chances while looking far more balanced (and less likely to get overun) if we play more of the 'workers' with 1 or 2 of the creative players. I like our creative players confidence but sometimes I think they think they're better than they are.
Also I enjoy watching Wilshere play and with him playing alongside Noble is either going to work really nicely or we're going to get overrun (they're fairly similar players with WIlshere being a slightly more advanced version). Perhaps with Wilshere's injury record he could make a good option coming off the bench as opposed to starting (especially during the first few weeks of the season). It's a tough one though as it's pretty clear WIlshere is one of (if not) our most capable/comfortable players in posession.
Reid's going to look far better with each game he plays. I'd like us to use Balbuena and Diop but Reid will be knocking at Diop's door trying to take his spot. Yarmolenko too will hopefully get better with more game time as currently he's giving the ball away a bit too much (Lanzini too has lost the ball with his passing and dribbling a bit too much).
On a more positive note, I felt Cullen grew into the game a tiny bit in the second half but is perhaps too lightweight and not quite ready (whether he'll ever be is another question). Ben Johnson also looked good when he came on on his favoured right hand side. However, I really rate Fredericks highly and with regular game time I think he'll turn into a top defender; hard in the tackle, gets up and down the right brilliantly and supports the attack well (with a good finish on him for a RB/RWB), his pace and stamina is very advantageous.
I'd like to see Holland get a few sub appearences this season. For me, Ben Johnson and Holland are our youths with the most potential (excluding Rice from this as he's a first team regular). Cullen I'm not so sure about. Diangana will obviously improve and I doubt he's going to be a star man in our first team but may be a nice squad player.
Also, how good did Shelvey look? I've been an admirer of him for a while. Extremely underrated imo.
For me, in terms of the pecking order: Goalkeepers: Fabianski (1st choice), Roberto (2nd), Martin (3rd) RB: Fredericks (1st), Johnson (2nd), Zabaleta (3rd) LB: Masuaku (1st), Johnson (2nd), Cresswell (3rd) CB: Balbuena (1st), Diop (2nd), Rice (3rd), Reid (4th), Ogbonna DM: Rice, Noble, Obiang, Sanchez CM: Wilshere, Snodgrass, Cullen AM: Fornals, Anderson, Lanzini LM: Anderson RM: Antonio, Yarmolenko, Diangana Strikers: Haller, Antonio, Chicharito
To be fair, Fornals & Haller are clearly going to make a difference & add quality in the attacking area & we are yet to see either. Pelle has never really been one to focus on defence. Cresswell has been past it for a couple of years now. As I said, I am not slating Zab, he was good for us last year & is a brilliant pro, but we just should not be relying on him as a back-up to Fredericks, especially given the frequent injuries the latter has accumulated to date. A CM & one additional full-back of good quality would massively improve us.
To be fair, Fornals & Haller are clearly going to make a difference & add quality in the attacking area & we are yet to see either. Pelle has never really been one to focus on defence. Cresswell has been past it for a couple of years now. As I said, I am not slating Zab, he was good for us last year & is a brilliant pro, but we just should not be relying on him as a back-up to Fredericks, especially given the frequent injuries the latter has accumulated to date. A CM & one additional full-back of good quality would massively improve us.
Imo Johnson will be our second choice right back next season. Or at least I expect him to become the second choice right back as the season goes on (perhaps around Christmas time). Zabaleta doesn't worry me... what worries me more is our options at left back. Masuaku has potential and can have a blinder then suddenly look completely out of place at left back, while Cresswell I don't rate particuarly highly, and Johnson has potential but is a youngster playing on his less favoured side.
Why would any of our players be top 6 quality? We aren’t too 6 and we’re nowhere near it.
Sorry but cannot agree with that, we want to compete around the few just outside top 6, and IMO the only thing that Arsenal have over us IMO is experience, player for player on paper, I'm not sure Arsenal are better than us...
Comments
I dont get this excuse we do year in year out off it's all about fitness....then we get battered the first few games of every season
Also I fail to see how strolling about will help them gain any match fitness
Who's making excuses?
Were we dreadful first half against Citeh?
Sanchez comfortably the worst.
I think what today has proven, for me at least, is that some of our defenders are not top 6 quality. Zaba, Cresswell and Ogbonna will only get worse, so I think to really challenge the top 6 we would need to replace them. I suspect Johnson has done enough already to be considered ahead of Zaba and Cresswell as back-up full back.
Also, if Pellegrini wants our fullbacks to push forward, it's essential that they're covered by a good defensive midfielder. Rice we know is just that, but Sanchez is a liability and if Obiang goes, we need to invest that money into a much better option than Sanchez.
Welcome aboard.
First half we got no hold in MF, and no cover from our wing forwards.
2nd half was a clear improvement.
Why would any of our players be top 6 quality? We aren’t too 6 and we’re nowhere near it.
We'll never achieve that with the defenders we have. We've spent big up front to try to break into that top 6 and I would argue Anderson and, from what I've seen and heard of them, Fornals and Haller, could play at that level, but Diop aside, I can't see any of our defenders being of that standard.
Cresswell and ogbonna are just not good enough (and havent been for a while)
And Hernandez is just not suited for us as a lone striker
Still think the midfield balance is off, we get out worked and overrun far too easily
We need a CM who's athletic & powerful, I think too many playmakers is leaving us too weak and easy to get to
:doh:
A) Teams have off-days - this may have been one of them for us
We weren't playing a full strength team in the first half. Second half we looked a bit better
C) Perhaps the players weren't going fully at it
D) I think with the big signings we've made in Haller and Fornals, it's excited many of us (me included) and perhaps raised our expectations slightly.
As I say, it is a little worrying how poor we looked (especially Cresswell, Ogbonna, Lanzini, Yarmolenko and Sanchez) but I'm still not going to read into it too much.
An observation as a fan I've noticed is Cresswell is very quick to put his hands in the air/complain when we make a mistake and almost looks like it's quick to blame his teammates. Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick watching from my computer though.
I much prefer our solid 'workers' of the team in Noble, RIce, Snodgrass etc to the more flashy creatives of Lanzini, Yarmolenko etc. Obviously we need some creatives but I think we'll actually create more chances while looking far more balanced (and less likely to get overun) if we play more of the 'workers' with 1 or 2 of the creative players. I like our creative players confidence but sometimes I think they think they're better than they are.
Also I enjoy watching Wilshere play and with him playing alongside Noble is either going to work really nicely or we're going to get overrun (they're fairly similar players with WIlshere being a slightly more advanced version). Perhaps with Wilshere's injury record he could make a good option coming off the bench as opposed to starting (especially during the first few weeks of the season). It's a tough one though as it's pretty clear WIlshere is one of (if not) our most capable/comfortable players in posession.
Reid's going to look far better with each game he plays. I'd like us to use Balbuena and Diop but Reid will be knocking at Diop's door trying to take his spot. Yarmolenko too will hopefully get better with more game time as currently he's giving the ball away a bit too much (Lanzini too has lost the ball with his passing and dribbling a bit too much).
On a more positive note, I felt Cullen grew into the game a tiny bit in the second half but is perhaps too lightweight and not quite ready (whether he'll ever be is another question). Ben Johnson also looked good when he came on on his favoured right hand side. However, I really rate Fredericks highly and with regular game time I think he'll turn into a top defender; hard in the tackle, gets up and down the right brilliantly and supports the attack well (with a good finish on him for a RB/RWB), his pace and stamina is very advantageous.
I'd like to see Holland get a few sub appearences this season. For me, Ben Johnson and Holland are our youths with the most potential (excluding Rice from this as he's a first team regular). Cullen I'm not so sure about. Diangana will obviously improve and I doubt he's going to be a star man in our first team but may be a nice squad player.
Also, how good did Shelvey look? I've been an admirer of him for a while. Extremely underrated imo.
For me, in terms of the pecking order:
Goalkeepers: Fabianski (1st choice), Roberto (2nd), Martin (3rd)
RB: Fredericks (1st), Johnson (2nd), Zabaleta (3rd)
LB: Masuaku (1st), Johnson (2nd), Cresswell (3rd)
CB: Balbuena (1st), Diop (2nd), Rice (3rd), Reid (4th), Ogbonna
DM: Rice, Noble, Obiang, Sanchez
CM: Wilshere, Snodgrass, Cullen
AM: Fornals, Anderson, Lanzini
LM: Anderson
RM: Antonio, Yarmolenko, Diangana
Strikers: Haller, Antonio, Chicharito
Ideal line up:
------------ Fabianski ----------
Fredericks - Balbuena - Diop - Masuaku
--------- Rice - Noble ---------
--- Wilshere - Fornals - Anderson -
------------- Haller -------------
Second choice line up:
------------ Fabianski ----------
Fredericks - Balbuena - Rice - Johnson
--------- Snodgrass - Noble ---------
--- Antonio - Fornals - Anderson -
------------- Haller -------------
'Rui Patricio refusing to go off even though it is technically pre-season'